Musicians selling out

In console gaming, there is a discussion about musicians (rap dudes) selling out by allowing EA to put them in a videogame (Def Jam Vendeta). Spider said selling out isnt a bad thing. I figured rather than getting off topic in a topic about videogames, I'd start a topic here to discuss the art of selling out.

I consider a group 'selling' their music to a big corporation for use on a tv commercial to be selling out. I personally cant stand it. This form of selling out really seems to be popular with older bands. Take The Who for example. The very band who put out an album called "The Who Sell Out" completely sold out when they allowed Nissan to use "Wont Get Fooled Again" for a Maxima commercial.

The Who aren't the only band though. I just recently lost loads of respect for Van Morrison when I heard "Moondance" being played in the background of a commerical for Infiniti's new 'crossover vehicle'. The whole 'sell your songs to big buisness' trend has gotten so hot, there is even a cd out that features a whole bunch of famous songs used in commercials. Yuck.

I dont know... I could be alone in this way of thinking. My favorite band, The Doors were offered 15 million dollars by Cadillac to use their song "Break on Through" in a whole bunch of commercials. You know those ones where Led Zeppelin is being blasted as a Cadillac Escalade drives by? Well, instead of saying "Break Through....Cadillac", they were originally supposed to say "Break on Through.... Cadillac". The Doors denied Cadillac's original offer and denied them again when it was raised to 15 million dollars. I'm guessing the way The Doors refuse to sell their music is influencing the way I think here.... I've talked to other Doors fans and they all feel the same way. Thats why I posted all this here-- to get a different point of view.

So, is a band selling their music to a commercial bad? Are there certain instances where it's acceptable? How about movies? Movies are art, just like music. Selling your music for use in a movie cant be all bad, right?

Whatever the case is, I cant even listen to "Rock and Roll" by Led Zeppelin anymore without thinking about the Cadillac commercials. Mission accomplished on Cadillac's behalf. Too bad they had to completely ruin a song in doing so.

Gotta make that money.

Every band you've ever heard of has sold out. Getting a record contract isn't as easy as just making music. You've gotta do what the producers ask of you. That's just step one in selling out.

Check out the lyrics to a little ditty by Tool called Hooker with a P****. It really carries a good attitude about the phrase "selling out."

Basically what I'm saying is that term is way too broad and I'm absolutely tired of hearing it. Discussions about "selling out" are all too common. As for music in commercials, I figure why not take the money if it's there? It's all gonna end up there anyway when everyone in the band dies and they give up the rights to the music.

historically, there have been 2 types of good artists: those who lived well, and those who lived and died poor. the former "sold out", in a system called patronage. except they went much farther than modern artists generally do. they basically created to order, whatever their patron wanted. (they did create solely for themselves also, of course) now, which is the bigger sellout? someone that creates what he/she wants and then later sells it to someone that values it, or someone that "creates" to order?

musicians make their living by selling music. whether it be in concert, an album, or to a corporation, its still selling music. the beatles, stones, and sinatra aside, most successful musicians have a very short time where they are popular and can make significant amounts of money. since they were in the news lately, consider great white: a few big hits and 2 good albums (commercially speaking). they now are relegated to playing clubs. not a lot of money there, its pretty much hand to mouth at that level. t

so, being unable to earn a living at doing anything else, what should musicians do? after all, this is their career, and few of them have more than a high school education. for most of them, i think selling their music for marketing is probably thier retirement fund. they sell the rights to cover their songs to other musicians, why not to a corporation? i think it would be nice if they chose a bit more carefully to whom and for what purpose they sold their output. but i cant think of any really objectionable products theyve been attached to.

now, in the case of the "money to burn" artists, thats a bit different. paul mccartney and yoko ono couldnt spend all their money in their lifetimes. so unless the proceeds are given to charity, its a bit tacky.

selling out...i have a few definitions, but after reading red's post...it may put them out of time.

selling your music to a commercial, video game, or movie...i like the idea...some may call it selling out...but some fans are happy when that happens. none of my music is ever in a car commercial so I can't say anything about that. to me, selling out is starting out being all about the music, then after years of playing, going mainstream and changing your entire image. there is nothing wrong with going commercial, as long as you remember what image you originall portrayed.

let's take a look at n.w.a for example

many years ago (man i love this) the group got together (to make a long story short) and started selling tapes out of a trunk...then moved into the studio...with little to no airplay, they went platinum REALLY fast. while they were together, there was hardly any airplay, for the simple fact that stuff like that couldn't be aired at the time. now everyone splits up, and dre goes commercial starting with "The Chronic." but he kept his same gangsta image, even though he went commercial. to me that's just being smart and not a sellout. to me, a sellout would be something like britney or christina. they both started out somewhat innocent. then britney went off and became a sex symbol and got implants...and christina became dirty. they started out as entertainers for young kids...and once the older masses poured in, they changed their entire image to make more money and becoming sex symbols for older generations. to me that's a sellout.

as far as selling your song to a commercial or movie...if the song fits the particular setting...THEN USE IT!

well..that's about all i have to say

The only "selling out" I was discussing was bands selling their music to be in commercials, movies and whatever else. Record labels not included.

I really hate hearing a Who or Beatles (their in a different situation because Jacko owns their tunes) song selling Nike soes or Nissan autos. It cheapens the music so much, I cant stand hearing the song on the radio. But, judging from the responses so far, I'm in the minority here.

Weird... I guess you all will do anything for a buck.

Originally posted by AK47
Weird... I guess you all will do anything for a buck.

But isnt that statement a truth about American Society? I mean, literally, everyone will do just about anything for some money. What that thing is depends on the person of course, but they would do it. I know I would.

It's pretty easy for people to flame musicians for selling out, but try being in their shoes? A lot of people say, "If I were in a band, i'd do this or that." But until you are successful and made the rounds, you really cant say you would or wouldnt do something.

Those are my thoughts. Let them do what they want. If they are my fave band, i'll still listen to them regardless. Perhaps just the older stuff, but you know, same thing.

i figure it pretty much the same as nwa kid on this one, it's about the message. if you feel that selling the rights of use to your song is a better way to spread your message, then by all means do so. a car commercial is not a better way to spread your message, unless the song is about driving or asphault or something car-related.

/me imagines "I can't drive 55" playing

I mean sure, there's a certain integrity associated with not selling your music for advertising purposes, but what's that get you anyway? Some respect from fans you already have? They're just going to find some other way to label you as a sellout. Just like a lot of people think the Doors are cheapening their songs by letting Ian what's his face fill in and sing what Jim Morrison wrote. Just don't give me that "true fan" argument about how they don't really like the band.

On another note, I don't look at Spike Jonze as a sell-out for doing those Nike or Buddy Lee commercials. And I most certainly don't think movies like Being John Malkovich are cheapened because he "sold out" to do advertising.

*edit*
what i'm saying is just enjoy their other work, they hardly ever pick good songs for the commercials anyway.

Selling out is a good thing for you cause when someone plays that song, you can laugh at them and insultingly say 'hah, I listened to them BEFORE they sold out, moron.'

Also, I think whenever music is played on the radio they have sold out cause then some store like Hot Topic can EASILY play their song on the loudspeakers. Musicians get the royalties and BAM, they have sold out. What a bunch of selfish frells.



Admin's Note: Ease up on the sarcasm please

Originally posted by N.W.A_Kid
to me, selling out is starting out being all about the music, then after years of playing, going mainstream and changing your entire image. there is nothing wrong with going commercial, as long as you remember what image you originall portrayed.

See, that's a selfish bullshit argument. That's the same as saying that musician X OWES YOU.

Musicians owe you nothing, you bought their record, and in return, were entertained by the record you bought. The owing relationship ends there. Just because you buy their records doesn't mean they have to please you after the fact.

Your assertion is extremely selfish, because you are saying that an artist has no right to change what they do, because that would offend you, because you believe they owe it to you to continue doing the exact same thing, year after year, album after album.

Sometimes people want to change, it's not up to you to decide whether or not they are allowed to, it's their decision as artists. If a band wants to make more intelligent music as opposed to brainless thrash metal, or wants to make a love song after singing angst for 20 f***ing years, it's their decision, not yours.

Calling someone a sellout because you don't agree with what they do is just a way of being bitter about their success.

I consider someone selling out when they take money for doing something that is against their beliefs. None of the rappers in Def Jam sold out, the game is about them with them fighting each other, and its about rap music. Now if it was them fighting the cast of Chicago and classical music, well then thats a different story.

Originally posted by SKYHN
I consider someone selling out when they take money for doing something that is against their beliefs. None of the rappers in Def Jam sold out, the game is about them with them fighting each other, and its about rap music. Now if it was them fighting the cast of Chicago and classical music, well then thats a different story.

I can possibly agree with that, IMO the actual act of selling out can only be achieved if you go against your own wants and beliefs for money. But that isn't really up to other people to decide, and in most cases, they wouldn't even know.