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SubZero4G Thermo-Electric Cooling
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Posted by: nocode
just curious if any of you have heard of Thermaltake's SubZero4G
I think it should be available later this month or some time in March, going for somewhere in the $200 range. most of the comments that i have read around the net have been skeptical at best. most people's worries are over condensation or that it will not cool the cpu to the temps Thermaltake is claiming.
here are some specs for the Athlon XP Processors from Thermaltake's Site.
 Quote:
Specification for AMD Althon XP up to 3400+
P/N A1617 A1618 A1619
Performance Cooling
(Max. CPU temp.)
Silent Mode
CPU Temp. Ambient Temp.
Ilde 34.7 29.5
3DMark2001SE
1024x786x32 bits 38.0.0 32.0
Maxtherm 2.1 53.5 36.0
Power Mode
CPU Temp. Ambient Temp.
Ilde 36.1 32.5
3DMark2001SE
1024x786x32 bits 38.6 33.5
Maxtherm 2.1 46.6 33.5
All tests performance at room temperature 25oC using AMD XP 2200+. Temperature was
measured on the back side of the CPU die. Tests results may vary depending on case
design and air flow.
Noise level,
CPU fan
21-38dBA, dependent on load, < 25dBA in typical operation, dynamically controlled by microprocessor; patent-pending noise-reduction technology
Noise level,
Case fans
3-step microprocessor-controlled:
6, 8, 12 VDC, control according to PC ambient temperature and CPU temperature; smart noise-reduction algorithms
Response time to CPU temperature change < 1 second (reduces hot-spot effect)
PCI Card Dimension 190 x 114 x22 mm
InputVoltage 90-240 VAC, 50-60Hz, automatic
Power Consumption from Mains CPU in sleep mode: 4W
CPU in typical mode
(running office programs): ~15W
CPU under maximum load: 73W
Safety Approvals UL, FCC, CE, VCCI
Weight 379 g
Cooling Assembly Heat Sink 80 x 68.5 x 41.3 mm, Aluminum
CPU Fan 70x70x15mm, 12V, 4800±10%RPM, 5.3mmH2O,
32 CFM, 21-39dBA, dependent on load, Ball bearing
LED Case Fan 80 x 80 x 25 mm, 12V, 2000±10%RPM,
1.98 mmH2O, 27.8 CFM, 21 dBA, Sleeve
Thermo-Electric Unit 40 x 80 mm
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so what do you guys think? do you think this kind of cooling will work, or will it just be a waste of money for something that could possibly Kill your computer with Condensation?
Posted by: taco_fox
$200??? It's only a ****ing 73 Watt pelt. That's insane.
Any peltier-type cooler that uses air instead of water to cool isn't worth getting.
And this has been posted here before, iirc, but I never knew the price.
Posted by: SKYHN
Ehem....
http://www.opentechsupport.net/foru...ght=Thermaltake
Posted by: redwench
well, i suppose if anyone has a computer set up in a swamp, condensation might be a problem. most people have them indoors, however.
Posted by: nocode
Quote:
Originally posted by the_radarblip
And this has been posted here before, iirc, but I never knew the price.
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i could have swore i read about it here in the past, but my search for SubZero4G turned up no Hits. sorry
anyway, the main reason i wanted to hear some opinions from you guys, is that i work with a guy that is Hell bent on buying this thing when it becomes available. he has just recently put together a new unit, (motherboard and cpu), in a piece of s*** old case, and is having a horrible time with Heat. he bought an Asus A7V8X board along with an Athlon XP2600+ , and his cpu temperatures are insanely high using a AMD stock Heat Sink and fan. his cpu temperature is around 70C idle with a room temperature of 24C, and at full load, the temperature shoots all the way over 80C and beyond until the Asus Probe software Freaks and shuts the computer down.
one thing that does have me confused a little, concerning his heat problems, is that he claims his motherboard temperature is staying at a cool 29C, which makes me think his piece of s*** old case has good air flow.
he called me yesterday to tell me he was going to buy one of Thermaltake's regular Copper Heat Sinks to use until the SubZero4G becomes available, so i guess the results from his new copper heat sink will be the determining factor as to if he will shell out $200+ for the SubZero4G set up.
Posted by: taco_fox
It's not worth $200. He could get a pretty good water cooling kit for that price that would probably cool better.
Posted by: redwench
if (and thats one big if) his mobo is at 29, then there is a localized airflow problem at the chip, or the heatsink/fan is not working properly. since hes getting a new sink anyway, make sure he uses a thermal compound properly. i really think that will take care of his termperature problems.
however, might i suggest that a new case, even a server tower, with a few fans and replacing his ribbon cables with round ones will solve any airflow problem, and be cheaper than buying that cooler.
if it really appear to be an air flow problem, have him go out today and buy round cables. theyre cheap 
Posted by: SKYHN
He needs:
New case(A chieftec or something) with front intake, back exhaust and a blowhole
Round IDE and Floppy Cables
SLK-900 Heatsink
ThermalTake Smart Fan 2(with or without cool mod)
Problem solved. That would come out to less than $200 and would be a lot better than that peltier. Watercooling would be way more expensive than that Peltier(Minimum of $300), as well as 100x more complicated and dangerous.
Posted by: taco_fox
Sorry, but watercooling doesn't have a minumum cost of $300.
Posted by: SKYHN
Quote:
Originally posted by the_radarblip
Sorry, but watercooling doesn't have a minumum cost of $300.
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Have you priced it lately? Kits start at $250, and thats just for CPU cooling, you gotta buy extra parts for GPU, Southbridge, etc. And most of the time, the tubing and ties that comes in kits is cheapo, so you gotta buy better tubing/ties.
Posted by: taco_fox
Um, I bought one recently. $250 is for a pretty high-end 1/2" system.
At dangerden.com you can get a system for ~$150:
Maze3 w/ lucite top
Heatercore
120mm Fan
Hydor L30 185gph Pump
10 Feet of 3/8" tubing
Misc. clamps/connecters
Anything else would just be an extra.
Posted by: SKYHN
Well of course you can get one for $150, even cheaper, when you buy all the cheapest parts. But in a year or whenever, when you wake up one morning and your whole PC is dead because the watercooling sprung a leak, you know where to point the finger.
Just recently several people from Futuremark(aka madonion) forums who went with cheap watercooling lost their PC's because their watercooling sprung a leak. One guy was sitting in the room when it happened, he said he litterally leaped across the room flipping off his UPC backup and everything else. Unfortuneately everything died but the video card. I thought about doing watercooling for my next PC, but after reading all the stories of what can and does go wrong, it really turned me off from it.
Posted by: redwench
he doesnt need water cooling. he doesnt need a blowhole. he doesnt need a peltier. he needs either a new case or a new heatsink, properly mounted. maybe both. but thats it.
Posted by: taco_fox
Quote:
Originally posted by SKYHN
Well of course you can get one for $150, even cheaper, when you buy all the cheapest parts. But in a year or whenever, when you wake up one morning and your whole PC is dead because the watercooling sprung a leak, you know where to point the finger.
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Those aren't cheap parts at all. They're the same thing as the higher-end parts except in smaller/less powerful configurations. Cheap is when you get an $89 kit from some place like compgeeks.com (it's not there anymore, though).
As for the people at Futuremark, shit happens. It was probably due to installation error.
But I guess my point is if you do your research you won't end up paying out the ass and installing it wrong.
or whatever
ANYWAY..
I agree with redwench. He doesn't need extravagant cooling, he just needs to change a few things like a new case and heatsink.
Posted by: nocode
Quote:
Originally posted by redwench
he doesnt need water cooling. he doesnt need a blowhole. he doesnt need a peltier. he needs either a new case or a new heatsink, properly mounted. maybe both. but thats it.
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i had a feeling that is what most of you would say. i have been at him about ditchin the amd stock heat sink and that old case he put his new cpu and motherboard in since i first learned of his heat trouble. maybe the new thermaltake heat sink will solve his heat problems, but if it doesn't, my guess is that he will buy the SubZero4G before he will buy a new case. anyway, i will relay to him all of this good input about his problem.
Posted by: redwench
the stock heat sink really should be working. if hes hitting 80, id suggest that its not mounted properly. the arctic silver company has instructions which, while directed for thier products, will apply to any similar thermal compound. he may just be able to get away with remounting, at least temporarily. www.arcticsilver.com
hes going to need a new case sometime, might as well do it now. 
Posted by: nocode
i do know for fact that the mounting of his heat sink is where his problems began. when he 1st told me of his heat trouble, i asked him, how much thermal compound did you use? he said, "uh, the entire tube of it." so i was like........  ..............anyway, after he told me that, i told him he needed to clean everything up, and remount the heat sink using the proper amount of thermal compound (.003" thin layer). so he has remounted the stock amd heat sink, but still has the heat trouble. maybe he didn't get all of his orginal mess off of the processor. i'm really not sure, but he told me he applied the thermal compound like i told him. anyway, without me actually seeing his computer with my own eyes, i have only been able to go by what he has told me. i guess i'll find out tommorow how the new Thermaltake heat sink, he said he was going to buy yesterday, is doing. if he still has heat trouble, i may go over to his house and check it out for myself. if i have to, i'll remount the heat sink myself if it looks like he still has not mounted it properly.
Posted by: slugo3
Quote:
Originally posted by SKYHN
Well of course you can get one for $150, even cheaper, when you buy all the cheapest parts. But in a year or whenever, when you wake up one morning and your whole PC is dead because the watercooling sprung a leak, you know where to point the finger.
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I just got finished cooling my xp2600, it cost me around $200 with all quality parts. I’m now getting temps of around 21-24 idle depending on the room temperature (don’t think you can go below room temp without refrigeration of some sort). Im not too worried about it leaking and even if it did, It doesn’t guarantee that you will fry your system (probably will though ) you use distilled water which doesn’t conduct electricity as well as regular water. you can fry your cpu with a fan if your not careful. for me the trade off between noise and lower temps sold me on water cooling, plus it looks great
Posted by: nocode
well, here's the latest. he did not buy a new heat sink Saturday because they did not have any of the copper sinks in stock. he did buy something else that has improved his heat problem significantly. he bought a hard drive cooler that has three fans. he says the fans seem to be pushing the air through his case much better than just the one case fan he was using in the front. his cpu is now running idle at 58C. he was very happy to get his temp down that much, so if he has no problems running at 58C, he may just keep the AMD stock heat sink, and i feel pretty sure he's not considering the SubZero4G anymore.
Posted by: Qui Gon-Jinn
If you only have one case fan running in the front.. invest in another for the rear.. so you even out the airflow.. and for god sake don't ever let that person use thermal paste again.. I have 1 tube of artic silver.. have done 5 systems with it to dat.. and still have most of the tube left..
If your going to change the heatsink.. look at the ThermalTake Volcano series.. 7 at least.. but a 9 wouldn't hurt..
Posted by: nocode
Quote:
Originally posted by Qui Gon-Jinn
If you only have one case fan running in the front.. invest in another for the rear.. so you even out the airflow.. and for god sake don't ever let that person use thermal paste again.. I have 1 tube of artic silver.. have done 5 systems with it to dat.. and still have most of the tube left..
If your going to change the heatsink.. look at the ThermalTake Volcano series.. 7 at least.. but a 9 wouldn't hurt..
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he does have a rear case fan, i just did not mention it previously when i was talking about the hard drive cooler helping the front case fan push the air through his system.
he was going to buy Thermaltake's Volcano 7+, which is the same heat sink i have. with my XP2200+, i'm running idle at 53C.
yeah, using the entire tube of thermal compound just blew me away! actually, i can't believe his cpu is still alive after what he has put it through, but i guess he's Lucky.
Posted by: taco_fox
I've seen worse. I sold my 1700+ to a friend a while ago, and he did not have decent heatsink. So.. he took a passive one off of a PIII (which still had the wax TIM on it) and slathered a bunch of silicone thermal grease on the chip.
I'm really surprised it still runs.
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