|
|
 |
|
|
Pages: 1
Weird Economics Too!!!
(Click here to view the original thread with full colors/images)
Posted by: laborat
Things you can consider while I go try to cheat my neighbor out of his property line:
One of the major fallacies of Capitalism, (the emperor's new clothes if you will) is that over time, Corporations have discovered ways around, the ecomonists dictum:let scarcity and the market determine the price.
In the process they have come up with a few dictums of their own, or ****ems if you will: Money talks. Buy low, Sell High. If you can't beat them, cheat them.
They can do this by engaging lobbyists(former government officials) to buy (current) government officials who then enact (obscure) laws allowing the Corporations carte blanche in their looting our World's resources.
The bought and paid for US government, continues to ream the ordinary joe by giving them immunity instead of increased liability when things go wrong. This means that the corporate bottom line is insured by the Federal Government and the stupid taxpayers who allow them to get away with it. The Savings and Loan Bailout is a good example. So was the Thalidomide Settlement.
Gibson's Bleak Futuristic, Neuromancer, showed us a world dominated by Corporations, where people routinely sold their body parts for money, the Neuro-Jackers were mainlining cyberspace, and the super rich could afford immortality.
On good days I chalk my observations up to a bad case of cynicism, on bad days, I am scared to death thinking of things to come. It is not the best way to spend my time but you can't be even semi-literate in this country without exposure to the cesspool that passes for Culture in America.
I am thinking that Jefferson and Madison would both be turning in their graves, so much so that it must feel like a rotisserie down there. While it is easy (through the grant system) to change the realities of history, it is harder to spin the reality of today. The Cleaver Family is considered by many now to be a disfunctional family. The Manson family is becoming closer to the norm.
It is and has been expected for a long time that our individual freedoms will go the way of the dodo. We continually look the other way when people are killed or raped on the street, Recalls and Food poisonings elict a yawn if that, and we keep electing crooks to congress, and think its great when some big developer decides to raze a historic district to put in a shopping mall.
Until we stop our headstandingss in the sand, The big corporations, big government, and whoever else out there who wants to screw us, will keep on doing what they do best -- making it even worse for the following generations.
If you really think that things are going swell,the stockmarket doesn't do insider trading, O.J. was innocent, your bottle water is safer than tap water, there is no global warming, and you have as good a chance to be president as anyone else, you are thinking the way they think you should think. congratulations. you are one of the idiotic masses that will only get what they deserve...
Posted by: redwench
*applauds wildly*
very good labby. i do think that sometimes the government should exempt corporations from liability, but it should be rare. when you ask? my answer is when something is made that society needs and the governement is unable or unwilling to make. case in point: vaccines for serious diseases.
now, dont get me wrong. if the maker is careless, and makes a bad batch, they should be liable. but if the problem is endemic to the vaccine, then the company should be exempt. for instance, the polio vaccine does cause a few cases of polio a year, not due to a defect in the vaccine, but rather the nature of it (its a weakened virus vaccine).
the pertussis vaccine has a similar problem. it does cause a few deaths every year. but when one thinks of all the disease, suffering, and death that those vaccines prevent, its clear that society as a whole must be vaccinated. this cannot happen if phamaceutical companies are liable for all the known side effects of these vaccines. it simply becomes too risky for them then.
a similar case can be made for berrylium plants. the metal is used by the defense industry, but is very hazardous to handle. even with godawful precautions, a few people do get sick every year.
im not saying people who get sick from things like this should just suck it up. the government should certainly pay all expenses for the affected individuals, but limiting liability of private corporations in a few isolated instances may be necessary for an ordered society.
that ends my rant for this quarter hour.
Posted by: Kdr Kane
From the paranoid point of view:
I've already decided that there are "players" out there that feel that the masses are stupid and apathetic.
Now, I'm a little slow. Especially, when it comes to taking advantage of others. So, I'm watching harder now. And I'm going to ride the next wave and make a big stink about it. Just so it doesn't have the ruinous effects as other waves in the past.
What am I talking about? Remember the Savings and Loan crooks? Then came the genetics craze in the stock market. The dot.com's followed that. Now, we are in a bit of a lull until the next big lemming rush begins.
Actually, I think it's already started. California's having problems because the energy utilities became deregulated. In a couple of months, they are going to deregulate the energy utilities in Texas. If Texas starts having the same problems California is having, you will know that people have just been bought off to bring this about. It's awfully strange. Utility stocks used to be the most secure investment available besides Treasury Bonds. It looks like they found a way to get to that secure money and steal it.
Please, don't tell them my real name. LOL 
Posted by: Kdr Kane
btw
I got my sunglasses on. And thanks to Revenge's advice, I am taking on the Unabomber look.
Posted by: redwench
yep, youre right about utilities. some things just shouldnt be left to the capitalistic market. i feel that water, gas, electricity, and telephone need to be regulated, if not owned, by the govt. and yes, i do hate the government. but i hate the anarchy that comes out of capitalism worse. i can just see the water from the great lakes sold to other countries and various parts of the us. not too far fetched, there were some deals in the works, until the governors of the states and provinces agreed not to sell any water (can you tell i live in the great lakes area?).
and a basic phone line out here costs about 25/month.now, if that user doesnt have a computer, that line costs the phone company maybe $5 a month to maintain service. wheres the money go? i have a dial up, so i gets my moneys worth
dont get me started on $8 per month for caller id.
Posted by: laborat
Dear Red,
I am not convinced that ANY major drug company has the public good as a major goal. That is the problem as I see it. No one could truly gripe that at the cost of medicine if it was effective. Truth is, doctors have so over vaccined and Antibodied our bodys that the newest crop of germs out there just yawn and kill us dead. By the time the doctors figure out whats wrong, the virus has gone back in hiding until next time. Anybody remember Legionaires Disease? I have one of my neighbors on the River here in Missouri with a Wierd Goverment Mosquito Trap in her back yard, there for the specific purpose of track the progress of the West Nile Virus. They can only track since there is nothing they can do about it.
The orginal purpose behind the Rant, besides a bad case of gas from a shitty burritto and a lack of new reasons why my ISP wants to keep me offline, was that Government is in the POCKET of the major corporations. and Gladly. Civil Service means saying Thank You when the lobbyists line your pockets with gifts, junkets, and insider deals, not to mention the cushy job after you leave the government. Once upon a time, people actually cared about serving their country. I am not sure when that time was, but hell, we all grew up thinking that was the case.
The Corporate Welfare that is so prevalent these days, is just a reflection of a dying society. The ones that lobby the most get the gravy. Survival of the fittest. I don't begrudge the Rich their due, someone has to accumulate stuff for the rest to steal. What I do hate with a passion, and where I draw the line is when they knowingly put defective or unsafe products on the market and then deny it when they are caught. And they keep denying it even while they yell for the government to limit their liability so they won't have to go out of business. Who do you really think is worth more to the US Government?,-- a few idiots who had the bad luck to eat rotten meat in their third world texas schoolroom, or a Corporation that pays taxes and employs taxpayers, and is ofter the major job outlet in the area? Who do you really think is worth more to the government? -- a few toddlers who choked to death on unsafe Toys or a Major Toy Corporation who made significant campaign contributions to the Ruling Party.
Forget the rights of the individual. All men are not created equal. Equality is found only at the feet of the stockholder and only if everyone else has the same amount of shares he has. I can go outside right now, and blow someone away, a stranger even and get 10 years max. 7 if I don't kill anyone inside. A corporation can kill 1000's and not serve a day, and possibly end up with MAJOR
GRANT monies from the Government to find out what went wrong.
That in itself irks me that our government expects those foxes in the hen house to police the chickens. Trouble is, if the Government doesn't have Faith in Corporate America, it risks the fall into socialism and the death of Capitalism. No way they gonna let the Commies have the last laugh. the last Trust Buster was Teddy Roosevelt, and don't expect to see another, except in historical re-enactments. The Crooks in this country have come of age, and only history will tell us if they succeeded in sucking the life out of this country prematurely. That is, if you can find a historian who isn't beholden to some corporation that wants a rosier place in the publics memory.
Posted by: redwench
labby, i didnt say the drug companies had our best interests at heart. quite the opposite, they want to make a profit. which they cannot do if they are held liable for KNOWN side effects of drugs and vaccines. my idea is that the govt should step in in the interests of its citizens, and remove this liablity so they will make these vaccines that no one on this forum has lived without the benefits of. even if one is not vaccinated oneself (mistake), one benefits from others having immunity.
oh, labby, legionaires is a bacteria, cant vaccinate for those. and the more antibodies the better
and my argument was that sometimes government should protect private industries. not often, but sometimes. but the tobacco companies have the senate in their pocket, as do the big mining companies. they sell mining rights for a fraction of the value to these big companies that destroy the local ecosystem and rake in a big profit.
i love to rant hahahaha.
Posted by: laborat
How's this for a immune benefit...last year, the drug company balked at the pittance they thought they were being paid per dose for the Flu Vaccine they make. They decided to hold out for more...no way jose...net result a nation wide flu vaccine shortage.
i was one of the disabled ones who got the flu while waiting for the flu vaccine to become available. It took me almost 6 months...
last thanksgiving to the first of May of intense infusion therapy to recover...I take 41 pills a day. 5 of my pill bottles cost over a 100.00 a piece with Prilosec weighing in at almost 200. thank god I am poor since no one with money could afford to buy both drugs and AC in the summer or Heat in the winter. Hence you always see a spate of seasonal related deaths among the elderly each year. They had to make a choice...buy drugs and risk dying from excessive heat or cold...or pay the utility companys and risk dying from lack of drugs. This notion of allowing Drug Companys relief from liability is sick.
Posted by: redwench
i didnt say allow them blanket freedom from liability. but when someone is informed of the side effects, and chooses to take the risk, or in some cases, is required to take the risk by the government, they should not be able to sue for a known risk.
lets take a frivolous example. birth control pills have a risk of causing blood clots, sometimes fatal. its well documented, its in every months supply that you get. any decent doctor who prescribes them warns the patient. so, if some woman decides to take birth control pills, she shouldnt be able to sue the manufacterer if she has a stroke brought on by a blood clot.
the same with a useful vaccine. pertussis has a very high fatality rate among children, which is why almost all children are now vaccinated. we dont want this vaccine to disappear becuase nutty parents sue the company because of a KNOWN side effect. therefore, we should introduce limited liability for known problems.
poor labby. i hope i dont get whatever you got.
Posted by: laborat
Dear Red,
On my tombstone, besides pepperoni and mushrooms,
they will enscribe...
"he died of a broken heart"...
upper pulmonary hypertension,
coronary artery disease,
congestive heart failure,
chronic renal failure,
and cerebral stroke caused by idiots,ex-wives,
charlatens, Politicians, Cubs fans, and Phillistines.
Posted by: redwench
pulmonary hypertension? god thats rare. thats always been on my list of things not to acquire. not that i would want the other stuff either. what kind of music are you having for your wake?
Posted by: Chako
A lively Irish dirge? With a list like that...might as well make it a country music song. 
Posted by: Null Actor
I remember an awesome MAD TV skit... some guy got drunk, became the president of the united states. He couldn't remember what happened though, so his aid was filling him in:
Aid: "You cured cancer sir"
Pres: "No shit! How'd I do that!?"
Aid: "Well, sir, you found the nations 5 top scientists, and gave them all cancer. Within 2 months you had 5 separate cures."
Posted by: laborat
After careful consideration and even after writing my own music for my funeral, I have decided to scrap all that and go with a mountain of Speakers playing "Hole's Greatest Hit" at graveside.
Posted by: Zendu
ahh time to play devils advocate, labby if it aint broke dont fix it, were the richest country in the world, and even though there is corruption, the other currupted officals notice this, and in order to get rid of him ( so they get mre) the rat him out, then thier ratted out...Think of this: it is a sign that we have a increadbly powerful and stable goverment if we are allowd to discuss its flaws, in a dictator shio we whould somply be shot. Also, theorys are all good, but communism doesnt work at all even though it is the bet form of goverment. democracy works, not sure how but it is better than everything else out ther
Posted by: JANNA
democracy doesnt work any more than communism. a democracy is merely rule by mob. the US is a Republic. a republic is a form of govt where the leaders are elected and sent out to govern and do not have to answer for their actions until the next election time. democracy is merely majority rule. one of the nice things about republics is that the little guys are generally protected from whims of the majority which is why we have not gotten rid of the electoral system that we have. otherwise only the top 6 US city's citizens would have any say over who our next president is....
our constitution also allows people to band together to petition and lobby the government which is a VITAL key to our remaining a free nation and free of socialism. if there was not a way to lobby then only the rich democrats like the kennedys would be able to dictate law. if there was no lobbying in the US then we would still have segragation, rampant racism, and an extremely polluted environment. we would not enjoy freedom of speech as it is now and probably still be maintaining patrols in the jungles of vietnam....
lobbying the govt is a vital right and one that should not be given up because one or two news media run sensationalistic stories trying to convince people that all lobbying is "EVIL" yes corporations lobby but the vast majority of lobbyists are the ones that represent u and i and often are never covered by the media.
Posted by: Chako
Eh? Did I hear that correct? Fact is most lobbying are from small special interest groups with large financial backers. They strive to place their special agenda in front of the law makers, grease palms and generally make a nuisance of themselves. Most of the population do not lobby. Point of fact, most of the population don't have the time, patience, or money to go and lobby for something. This makes the masses have no voice, with the politicians hearing the small lobby groups loud and clear. Reason why large businesses love to lobby, they have the agenda, the money, and the wherewithal’s to go through with the process. Point of fact is Microsoft. They have been intensively lobbying the government for many things. Does this represent the interest of U or the majority of the people...no way...it represent the interest of Microsoft. Since I like to back up my words with some facts.
Microsoft Lobby weights in
Microsoft to Lobby US Govt. to Stop Funding GPL-Licensed Software Development
That was just a few articles on the net. I used Microsoft because I felt it effects the majority within these forums. I won't even get into special interest lobby groups for pro/con smoking, pro/con abortions, pro/con fire arms, religious groups, political groups, business groups etc.... And before you say something like "but your a Canadian?" We have our own lobbyist looking for their own interest. One that particularly ticked me off is the "Feminist Group who just happens to be full of Lesbians" that my Govt funds. Their agenda is that all men are dogs etc…and my govt funds such crap…it was telling when another group of feminist (this time made from housewives) was formed to fight this group…but did not get any Govt support because they did not grease enough palms nor did they have the financial backing…for everyone knows that it takes money to get money. Worst was when the Feminist Lesbians had some sort of convention to make them look above board, they barred the housewives feminist from passing the door because they were not "true feminist"….bah!
Posted by: JANNA
just because some folks use cars to drive drunk doesnt mean all car users are evil. same goes for lobbying. actually microsoft did not have any lobbyists until clinton/reno started suing them over a fallacious case made originally by netscrape. but because someone or a group of someones band together to pool resources to lobby for their ideas doesnt make lobbying wrong. and just because a rich corporation lobbies doesnt mean they automatically get their way. take the exxon valdez incident for example the exxon lobby spent i would imagine multiple millions of dollars lobbying yet they are still forced to new more restrictive regulations governing the transportation of oil and oil products via tankers. are the automobile lobbyists successful in getting the emmissions standards lowered to make it easier for them to sell cars?? or how bout the news media lobbyists trying to get that malarky of campaign finance feingold/mccaine bill passed?? yet when a band of misguided individuals got together and pooled their resources they got a huge ban on weapons and that idiotic brady bill passed.
Posted by: laborat
Whatever your point of view... one thing cannot be disputed and that is that our government has replaced the politics of conscience with the politics of convenience. AK is right in that the US is a republic in democracy clothing. What he didn't say and most people don't consider as well is that Capitalism is boss of the walk.
Capitalism is driven by Economics and Economics in turn are driven by markets in which commodities or services are exchanged for market value which drives the corporations beholden to their stockholders to engage strategies and specialists in information that fuel further economies of manipulators. PR firms and spin doctors, all of whom are are represented by various and sundried lobbyists who are paid big money to keep those markets viable.
My original point if there was one, had nothing to do with whether lobbyists are evil. In fact in point of full disclosure, I am a lobbyist via writing opinion pieces on the internet. It was aimed at lobbyists who spend big bucks on hands out politicians to get their corporation out of some very hot water with public opinion by having the government bail them out from liability or passing legislation that gives them immunity from prosecution. The people who pulled the Savings and Loan Scam in my view should have been Shot rather that getting slapped on the hand, sent to Club Fed Federal Facilties, and fined a few million bucks. After it was all said and done, We the taxpayers coughed up Billions to bail them out and still the depositors only got up to the insured level back... Most of them old with no other means of support.
My quibble with AK and JANNA here is that they seem to see this as a necessary evil for Capitalism and Democracy to thrive. I have a differing view, that of being responsible for YOUR own mess and not be able to bribe your way out of a situation you thought you could pass off as legit. A black man on the streets of Detroit is shot dead for shop lifting a bottle of booze. No Trial. A white Man in St. Louis on trial for Murder is allowed to roam free on bail while awaiting trial and after 5 trials was convicted of a lesser charge of manslaughter and was then set free on probation since he was held to be a pillar of the community.
One of the Main witnesses for the Kennedy accused of bludgeoning a girl to death with a golf club for not submitting was found dead yesterday. A junkie. Yeah Right. The representative for the Kennedys said simply, it just proves that his allegations were the ramblings of a druggie and our client is innocent. The other witness recanted. Money talks. That's the sad part. Nobody's really cares is the Tragic part.
Posted by: LT
You know what's cool?
Choice.
We all get to make a choice.
The other neat thing is there's a system. Some use it, some abuse it, some live outside it, along side it, pay in to support it, do their hardest to change it.
Social, political, religious, philosophical. We can choose.
Ah yes, one invariable. Labby will have his say. Count on it.
Posted by: JANNA
*Rant deleted*
NM
no point in it. no point in trying to explain the way things are and why, when the news media has so many people that have never studied history, yet they are the authority everyone quotes for facts *sigh*
|
|
|
|
|
