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Computer Gaming Has it All Been Done?
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Posted by: Dilbo
Well . Suffuce it to say . I have played many MMORPG's starting with Ultima Online way back in the day . I have been seeing a trend occuring in most newer games , This trend seem's toward "team" play more than a solo experience. Take Everquest and Anarchy online for instance . Both games force you to team up more regularly as you level. At higher levels it becomes impossible to solo play . ( for instance i played a lv 196 character on anarchy and would spend up to a hour each session looking for a team to go hunting with.) This is unacceptable to me . Sometimes I wouyld like to go out on my own , or do not have time to look for a team . I have also played many online Real Time Strategy games such as Warcraft,Command and conquer,Age of empires
and most games of that type . These seem to be dominated by what i like to refer to as Rushers (someone who immediatley begins to Develop a base right inside yours or builds fortifications in your base,therefore crippling you before you get on your feet), There are Sim games and Role Playing Games Then we get to First person shooters (which really is more based on connection speed than skill)Not that my connection speed is bad , I actually do well at all of these types of games. My point is. Where is the innovation . where are the new games? Has it all Really been done or is there a new game idea out there? Something radical or just plain new.
Posted by: SKYHN
The whole idea of an online game is to play with other people...
Posted by: AltronHGX
Nice rant.
Posted by: Xoncide
 Quote:
Originally posted by Dilbo
I have also played many online Real Time Strategy games such as Warcraft,Command and conquer,Age of empires
and most games of that type . These seem to be dominated by what i like to refer to as Rushers (someone who immediatley begins to Develop a base right inside yours or builds fortifications in your base,therefore crippling you before you get on your feet)
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Play more Starcraft and less other crap.
Ever tried TBG(text based games):
http://www.mechg.com/
http://www.konoblemen.net/
http://games.swirve.com/utopia/
BTW: I think konoblemen is the best on of those
Posted by: Bunmiadefisayo
Quote:
Originally posted by Xoncide
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Exactly, starcraft is still the best, most balanced RTS out there. I even prefer playing it to warcraft. As for Age of Empires...yuk.
In any case the point of online gaming is to play with or against otehr ppl and even if you initially start out playing alone, the tendency is for most ppl to come together and play as a team. In RPGs its even necessary to play in teams.
Posted by: Atlas4
Hey try a half textbased, trade-and-maim game Escape Velocity: Nova. It's the third in a very good trilogy, and I have no hates about any of them. Give 'em a try at Ambrosia Shareware I have no regrets loving these games. And, they're very original, at least in gameplay.
Posted by: Jack G.
Quote:
Originally posted by Dilbo
My point is. Where is the innovation . where are the new games? Has it all Really been done or is there a new game idea out there? Something radical or just plain new.
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Innovation is a vastly overused buzzword. Innovation does not equate to fun. In fact, innovation more commonly relates to market failure. Your average gamer does not want change. He does not want something different. He wants the same thing he has always been playing, just with better graphics.
Companies do innovate, but all too often the games are missed because while critically acclaimed, they aren't marketable enough. Usually if a game is innovative in any fashion, it means that you can't describe it properly using existing terms. And if you can't do that, then you can't sell it to people.
Take Beyond Good and Evil for example. Easily one of the best games I've played in years, and relatively innovative. It mixes many different styles of gameplay, great art direction, great story, fantastic music, and excellent writing. It is the most daring game I've seen a large publisher put out in a long time. Sadly, despite being a top notch title in every possible respect, it has been absolutely abysmal for sales. So bad, in fact, that Ubisoft dropped the price to 20$, and ceased production of the game. They also cancelled any plans for a sequel.
Another game, also from Ubisoft, with more than a dash of innovation, was Prince of Persia: Sands of Time. Being in league with Beyond Good and Evil in terms of looks, story, writing, and music, it is also a fantastic game. And like Beyond Good and Evil, it is also selling poorly. Ubisoft decided to package it with a free copy of Splinter Cell in order to move it off shelves. I haven't heard any news about sequels, but I assume it's headed for the same fate as Beyond Good and Evil.
Add the fact that innovative games sell poorly to the fact that the industry is currently in a downturn, and you'll realize that publishers just don't want to take risks. In North America, anyway. There are still plenty of innovative titles coming out of Japan for various consoles. From Nintendo's insane Warioware, to Sony's Eyetoy. But they, like Prince of Persia: Sands of Time and Beyond Good and Evil, tend to sell poorly in North America, which leads Japanese publishers to avoid selling them here.
So basically, the innovation isn't gone... it's just hidden until consumers begin buying innovative games again. Which I'm not sure will ever really happen. Innovation is something you'll have to actively seek out, because it won't come to you.
But there are still plenty of fun, entertaining games being made. I say that innovation is overrated because some of the best games I've played over the past few years haven't been innovative at all; they've just been well polished and well executed. And that alone can make a title plenty of fun.
So I suppose I should say: Don't hold out for innovation. Just keep an eye out for the good games. If enough people buy enough good games (including those that are innovative), then publishers will begin to see that they can make money off of innovative games, and they'll loosen up a little. But in the end, it's up to the consumers, and their all-powerful buying dollars.
Want to see more innovation? Go buy a copy of Beyond Good and Evil, and Prince of Persia: Sands of Time to show Ubisoft (and other publishers) that you appreciate innovation and want to see more of it.
Posted by: Tecil
Good post Jack, hit it on the head as usual.
Posted by: Kdr Kane
That's a great post, Jack.
I'd like to add a favorite Linux comment. If you don't see something you want, create it.
Posted by: Null Actor
If only it were that easy. 99% of the trouble with innovating is trying to come up with something new.
And making a game is hard to begin with, folks.
Posted by: AK47
Forget new games... go play some older games that you missed out on.
Klax > *
Posted by: Tecil
16 bit > *.nexgen
Posted by: uh...ok
ASCII pacman was fun.
Posted by: N.W.A_Kid
I still play older games. I have to agree with Jack, btw, your post was awesome. Null makes a good point too. Personally, I like single player RPG's better than online ones, but that doesn't mean I won't play them.
I keep hearing nothing but good things about Beyond Good and Evil, so I'm almost positive I'm going to pick it up. And Dilbo... If you're looking for a good RPG, pick up Divine Divinity, if you haven't played it already. It's a great game, mixing other styles like D2 in it, but surpasses D2 in every aspect. It's the greatest single player RPG I've played in years. oh yeah...I love Starcraft. 
Posted by: Ocean
i would pay $40 for a starcraft clone with better graphics and higher rezolution possible.
im not to interested in doom 3 other than graphics, but i am looking forward to the uniquness of half life 2. the demo clips get better and better.
Posted by: uh...ok
Quote:
Originally posted by Jack G.
Want to see more innovation? Go buy a copy of Beyond Good and Evil, and Prince of Persia: Sands of Time to show Ubisoft (and other publishers) that you appreciate innovation and want to see more of it.
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And on that note, I went and bought a copy of Beyond Good and Evil today.  I don't intend to play it... yet. I look forward to spring break for that.
Quote:
Originally posted by Ocean
i would pay $40 for a starcraft clone with better graphics and higher rezolution possible.
im not to interested in doom 3 other than graphics, but i am looking forward to the uniquness of half life 2. the demo clips get better and better.
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Starcraft 2!
Oh hey speaking of which, I actually saw a prerelease box of StarCraft: Ghost the other day at Gamestop.
Posted by: Wacheif
I hate it when people dont buy a game just becuase its different... especially if they dont even try it out or somthing... ive learnd to never trust completley in what other people say about games but to try it myself...
and i dont get why people just want remakes or the same old stuff over and over again... Man if u took pong and threw in music , better graphics and sounds people would probly storm stores for that before they even look at a great game like beyond good and evil....
it just.... ARGH its so STUPID...
Posted by: Null Actor
Quote:
Originally posted by Ocean
i would pay $40 for a starcraft clone with better graphics and higher rezolution possible.
im not to interested in doom 3 other than graphics, but i am looking forward to the uniquness of half life 2. the demo clips get better and better.
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What, exactly, is unique about Half Life 2?
Posted by: Jeddak
I agree with Jack. I love mmog's (won't even play single player games even if they have a multi option) especially after UO opened but then came EQ and the clone wars started. I don't blame the game companies as they have to make money so they take the safest path but the players have certain conventions that they demand so mmog's now are watered down, easy to play, low frustration versions of EQ (which early on was a tough game). It's like what would happen if the movie world was made up of clones of the same movie and no one dared to change. but I'm hooked on persistant worlds where I can do whatever I want (within the limits of the system). Currently, I am in Horizons which has a faint glimmer of change in it but the players are the same old spoiled, demanding brain dead gamers who say they want something new all the while demanding all the same features of games they dumped in the past.
Posted by: Ocean
Quote:
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Starcraft 2! Oh hey speaking of which, I actually saw a prerelease box of StarCraft: Ghost the other day at Gamestop.
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is there an actual starcraft 2 in the works at all?
Posted by: Workdawg
starcraft: ghost is a whole different thing. I dont know that much about it, but it seems like a splinter cell kinda game, where you play a ghost and go through a Starcraft storyline.
Dilbo: While FPS games do rely somewhat on connection speed, that hardly is a deciding factor in whos the best. In quake and UT, it does a lot more then in games such as Day of Defeat and Natural Selection. Day of Defeat is a WWII halflife mod where for the most part if you get shot, you are either dead or hurt pretty bad. Now you might think, well then ill just hold down the trigger and shoot everyone. Well that doesnt work, submachine guns have bad recoil, and machine guns that arent on their bipods are even worse. Even the rifles have pretty big recoil, they are bolt action and 1-hit kill. Cause if you miss your first shot, you better hope that they do to. Natrual-Selection is another HL mod, that is currently in open beta for a version to be released retail soon, just as DoD and CS did before. Its been out for at least a year now, and is very popular. The reason its so popular is because unlike almost all other halflife mods, it requires A LOT of teamwork to win the game. It sets marines vs aliens in various space locations, the marines have one player who becomes commander and plays the game as an RTS, they get a view from above the map, and they can drop buildings to be built, research upgrades and new weapons/items. They give their teammates waypoints and tell them what to do. Now the teammates are other players, so obviously they can choose whether or not to listen to the commander, but doing so is the real key to success. The aliens all have the ability to "gestate" into new creatures, one of which is the Gorge, or builder alien, he can build the upgrade buildings that allow his teammates to upgrade, he can put up offense chambers(turrets), and he can build new hives. A hive is an alien base. The key to winning the game is working together as a team. You will have some people who dont realize that and a game could litterally last forever. As soon as a team starts working together though, they have the ability to gain the upper hand and end it. Not to long ago i joined a game that was over 1.5 hours long already. I joined the alien team to look at the map and see no two of my teammates anywhere near eachother and no one was working together. After about 15 mins of me trying to get them to work together, we had a raiding party standing just outside there base and were ready to attack. Low and behold when we all went after the base at the same time we took it down with only one casualty.
Ya might think, or humans vs aliens, been there done that, but it really is different and a great game.
www.natural-selection.org check it out
as far as mmorpgs are concerned, ive played quite a few also. UO was by far my favorite because i LOVE pvp. eventually it got all messed up when EA took over and decided that because they didnt want to upset some players by nerfing their characters, who were truly over powered, that they would just keep pumping all the other skills up until the point where pvp is pointless. You hardly ever see anyone win a 1v1 fight. I also played EQ for about 3 months, I betad anarchy online for a short time as well as Ascherons Call. I played DaoC and Rubies of Eventide. Needless to say, they were fun while they lasted. What i really crave is an unbrideled PvP experience. Where you can attack anyone you want for whatever reason you want. If you really like there armor and wish you had it. Kill them and take it. No, "Insurance" like they have in UO now. I have discovered something that looks really promising for me though.
www.darkfallonline.com
It sounds like it will have everything i want. Currently in closed beta it sounds like it will feature great pvp aspects.
Posted by: Null Actor
Quote:
Originally posted by Jeddak
I agree with Jack. I love mmog's (won't even play single player games even if they have a multi option) especially after UO opened but then came EQ and the clone wars started. I don't blame the game companies as they have to make money so they take the safest path but the players have certain conventions that they demand so mmog's now are watered down, easy to play, low frustration versions of EQ (which early on was a tough game). It's like what would happen if the movie world was made up of clones of the same movie and no one dared to change. but I'm hooked on persistant worlds where I can do whatever I want (within the limits of the system). Currently, I am in Horizons which has a faint glimmer of change in it but the players are the same old spoiled, demanding brain dead gamers who say they want something new all the while demanding all the same features of games they dumped in the past.
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Give Ultima X: Odyssey a look. As far as I'm concerned, it's shaping up to be different. Action oriented combat, and a story/quest system that isn't just run of the mill fetching. Also, cool art design and characters. Give it a look some time. Plenty of info on their official site.
Posted by: N.W.A_Kid
Quote:
Originally posted by Null Actor
Give Ultima X: Odyssey a look. As far as I'm concerned, it's shaping up to be different. Action oriented combat, and a story/quest system that isn't just run of the mill fetching. Also, cool art design and characters. Give it a look some time. Plenty of info on their official site.
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It looks nice and looks promising, but the monthly fee is ridiculous. 
Posted by: Null Actor
Why?
Posted by: Tecil
That gives me a warm feeling inside everytime I look at the screenies. But then again I am a long time Ultima fan.
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