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Who else shares this 'trait'?
(Click here to view the original thread with full colors/images)
Posted by: FadedMaster
Yea, as I'm sure most of you are computer nerds like myself, and are super-nice guys, I'm sure whenever you ask a girl out you get the same response as me. It's always, "You're too nice of a friend." or something else along those lines. Right? I'm just kinda bored, and depressed. I'm sure ya all can guess why. I was just wonderin' how many of ya out there share that. Heh. And they say you can never be too nice.
Posted by: NyGulkuk
I used to get that all the time, then I fell in love with my best friend who is now my wife of 27 years.
Posted by: Xoncide
When I ask a girl out she usually throws her self at me and begs for sex. Then I tell her that im afraid it might ruin our friendship. I don’t know what is wrong with you man.
Posted by: uh...ok
"You're too nice" is just a typical way to say, "No, I don't ever want to go out with you, but I do want to keep you as a friend."
Posted by: INeedHelp
 Quote:
Originally posted by uh...ok
"You're too nice" is just a typical way to say, "No, I don't ever want to go out with you, but I do want to keep you as a friend."
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then that way, when my computer breaks and i can't update my xanga anymore, you can help me fix my computer
Posted by: elhior_manwe
hmmm...maybe, and this is from a woman's perspective, you shouldn't ask your friends out. you should find people outside your circle, and yes i do know that is hard. i would never want to get asked out by a friend...
Posted by: Bunmiadefisayo
Quote:
Originally posted by NyGulkuk
I used to get that all the time, then I fell in love with my best friend who is now my wife of 27 years.
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Awwwww how sweet 
but on a mroe serious note, WTF. You know, i wish you would get over the freaking "depresion" you are in and get on iwth your life man!. I mean, for crying out loud, realize that you are a great guy and move on with life. Honestly! Just becasue one or two girls say say "oh you are too nice..." or some other BS doesnt mean that there is something wrong with you. Dammit!
For the record, there is no such thing as a Nerd. I hate that f**king term, whats it supposed to mean anyway? So now its a crime to be smart and to want to mess around with your PC and do other "nerdy" stuff? I mean, i used to be bothered by the term too but then i relized i have no excuse for being smart and want ing to learn.
Chin up man! So what if one or two girls dont like you, BIG F**KING DEAL!! Move on with life and dont let such bother you.
Posted by: Xoncide
Quote:
Originally posted by Bunmiadefisayo
For the record, there is no such thing as a Nerd. I hate that f**king term, whats it supposed to mean anyway? So now its a crime to be smart and to want to mess around with your PC and do other "nerdy" stuff? I mean, i used to be bothered by the term too but then i relized i have no excuse for being smart and want ing to learn.
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Spoken like a true nerd, you nerd-face.
Posted by: Yumaddar
I'm a geek, and proud of it. People who are not geeks are generally people who don't know how to use their brains. People who stay in the box, and 'go with the flow'.
Now, on to the topic at hand.
Faded, are you familier with the ladder theory?
Posted by: redwench
god, not that.
never having asked a girl for a date, ive never gotten that response. but id say youre asking the wrong girls. try asking out women youre not friends with.
Posted by: Bunmiadefisayo
Quote:
Originally posted by Xoncide
Spoken like a true nerd, you nerd-face.
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Hmm interesting...
Posted by: uh...ok
"If you want to be with a girl, never become her friend," is a saying that a good friend of mine once told me (and I'm sure many are familiar with it). I didn't want to mention the ladder theory in my previous post because despite my own opinion that it does indeed hold a lot of truth, I know quite a substantial amount of people who don't think much of it to realize that it's not something to necessarily be "recommended as a way of thinking".
While I agree that for the most part, it sucks to ask a girl who's already your friend out, I don't see it as something that's entirely wrong. Oftentimes, especially with "nice" (aka shy) guys like us, it seems that the only reasonable point of entry is friendship. We're not assertive or courageous enough to walk up to that cute girl and simply ask her out. Instead, we take our time to actually meet her, do little things to make her days brighter, and basically try to impress upon her that we're someone she would want to go out with... and end up impressing on her that we're someone that she'd want to be really good friends with, or just good friends with, or just friends with, her.
Then should we all become more assertive, more courageous, and take on the same attitude towards women that those supposed "assholes" that that oh-so-wonderful Ladder Theory suggests? As one of my friends put it, "If sex is the only thing you're after." After all, how can you really change into someone that you're really not?
If you really like a girl, the friend route is actually not a bad way to go. Yes, it's a lot more painful, and yes, your odds of success are decreased by at least ten orders of magnitude. But if you're patient enough, and just be "there" for that girl friend of yours all the time, there may come a day when she will notice it, and she will realize that you're not just being super nice to her because you're just a nice guy. Or, in the case my friends-turned-couple, she'll have an experience of being without you (e.g. going away for a period of time) and realize how much she misses you when you cannot be there for her. If that happens, then congratulations... according to the Ladder Theory - you've successfully "jumped" between ladders. But according to the real world, you didn't jump any kind of ladder - her eyes just finally opened up to you.
Of course, this doesn't always happen... and in fact it's very much a rarity in case. So should you adopt this "strategy"? Or should you just jump the wagon like many others before you, and undergo a (perhaps necessary?) personality change/improvement that will allow you to be able to ask anything that walks on two legs out on a date? Well, that ultimately depends on how "nice" of a nice guy you really are, or want to be.
Posted by: Bix VT
Ok yes, I have this same problem. Another one I get a lot is: "I wouldn't want to lose you as a friend". Ok, if I thought it would jeopardize our friendship, I wouldn't have asked.
So can I sum it up like this:
Us: want to date our female friends.
Them: want to date guys they don't know.
 I simply don't understand the logic behind this...
Posted by: Bunmiadefisayo
Well put Uh...OK, well put indeed! i agree on every single point you made and i could never have put it better myself.
now that i look back on it, i do realize that you are very right. Instead of me simply going forward and asking whatever girl that cathces my fancy out, i go forward and try to be her frined. End result, although i have a satisfying friendship, it is simply not what i want. By the time i do get around to saying what i want, its too late.
End result though, dont stop being a "nice" guy man! Its who you are and you cant change just cuz society demands something other than what you are.
Well, im out. I'll simply read the resulting posts and not post anymore, seeing as how Uh...Ok has managed to reach the crux of the matter  . Bravo sir, bravo!
Posted by: laborat
your post implies that a girl who is your friend should understand your needs enough to give you a little in the spirit of friendship. Though unspoken since you describe it as a "trait", you should re-examine your motives for being friends in the first place -- was it because you were stringing along hoping to have some sex? Were you genuinely attracted to this girl because she possesses qualities you admire?
Having over the years been close enough to several women to ask questions like this one, I have found that most women prize friendship over sexual liason. Not surprising actually since most MEN also prefer friendship to sexual liason. Friendship is a lot harder than just having sex with someone. Eventually you will find the woman for you just by being yourself. This is the hardest thing for beginners in the dance of love to understand.
Sexual selection i.e. finding the right combination of skill, resource, willingness to protect the family unit , and survivability are deeply embedded into the instinctual genetic coding that women have. Men have it too, but to a lesser degree since they are not the child bearers.
This unfortunately is a difficult process for women since not all men possess the overall qualities women need in abundance.
They may be highly skilled at bringing home deer and bear to the cave, but lack the emotional qualities that promote the willingness to protect the family unit from outside attack. Child rearing is a shared responsibility. Men have as much influence on how children mature emotionally and physically as does the mother.
Men may appear to be resourceful i.e. skilled at plumbing or carpentry but put themselves in constant unnecessary danger by drinking and driving or picking fights in bars. A dead husband does nothing for a woman or the family unit.
Friendship with a woman is a totally different thing from the pheromal quest to implant sperm and perpeptuate the species that drive men to do incredibly stupid things.
If they are stupid to begin with, there can be disasterous even dangerous results. Driving your truck into your Lovers house to show her you love her is not something smart people or nerds would think of doing, but you know?, that approach does work since stupidity is not confined to the males our species.
Not that they really care about heady explanations for behavior, they represent the majority of our species since they are the ones who usually end up passing their basic genetic code along to the next generation. Some call this Natural Selection. Being smart is sort of an anomoly in our species plus being smart takes to long to react in situations where instant responses are needed. Cunning is preferable to Smart.
If they are smart they have to live with the knowledge that one or several of these types of encounters with women ended up being the stupidest thing they ever did. (if this self loathing for not doing the right thing for a woman didn't happen, our legacy of literature, music, dance, and the arts would be sorely lacking)
Those of us who are in between usually come away with no clue at all that what happened was not of our own free will but rather a chemically induced state of suspended brain dead that in other species like spiders allows the woman to eat the mate for a little after sex snack.
Still, back to my point. Don't worry about this stuff. What will happen will happen and in its own time. Concentrate on being yourself and not what you think of how others would want to view you. In the end that one step of self identity will hold you in good stead with a woman friend who will admire you and love you for who you are. The ability to communicate with each other and delving into deep levels of emotion and intellect is prized by both men and women and friendship is the portal to that type of intimacy. And Yes, anyone who goes into a committed relationship without friendship being present is a fool.
If you can't talk with your woman, freely; without gamesmanship, without guilt, without manipulation, about the basics of life bonding and ways to bolster your lifelong partnership, you should for the sake of whatever future children may happen along, forget the whole notion of sexual liason with that woman and continue to work on your personal growth.
So, get over it -- the depressive funk you seem to be in. In my view you are on the right path. It may not be the right time is all. And the deeper mysterys of life have their own time tables. Our job is to recognize when opportunity knocks,that it is truely happening, and is not just our inner needs feeding into self delusion and emotional mirage.
Posted by: Shalome
Quote:
Originally posted by Bix VT
Ok yes, I have this same problem. Another one I get a lot is: "I wouldn't want to lose you as a friend". Ok, if I thought it would jeopardize our friendship, I wouldn't have asked.
So can I sum it up like this:
Us: want to date our female friends.
Them: want to date guys they don't know.
I simply don't understand the logic behind this...
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I'll explain it to you, from the female perspective and my decade-and-then-some years of experience with dating.
Women don't tend to become friends with guys they want to date. They usually start dating a guy and then become friends with him. If a woman has been friends with you for a long time and has never flirted with you or given you any sign that she considers you "date" material, then she's not attracted to you.
Guys tend to see dating material EVERYWHERE. This is especially true of so-called "nice" guys, who don't tend to be terribly outgoing and don't get out and meet a lot of women. Therefore, they start seeing their female friends as "date" material, since they're already familiar with them. "Nice, nerdy" guys don't tend to take a lot of risks, and asking a friend out on a date is a nice, safe thing to do, while meeting a strange girl and asking her out is much harder.
The "I don't want to jeopardize our friendship" line has lots of levels of meaning. Yes, it can mean "this is the nicest way I can think of to turn you down." It can also mean that she's telling the truth -- a lot of women just can't be friends with people they've dated and subsequently broken up with.
It's also true that a lot of self-described "nice guys" are actually assholes in disguise. I can't even tell you how many needy, depressed, clingy, self-loathing "nice guys" I've met who will ignore their girlfriend for a video game for weeks on end, refuse to actually go out on dates, or wail on for hours about how depressed they are and how nothing in life ever goes their way -- and then wonder why she won't return their calls. Then they rail on how stupid women are, and how girls must only want to date assholes since they don't want to date "nice guys."
A Heartless Bitch Rant about Self-abusive People
Dave Explains Why Women Don't Like "Nice Guys"
Why "Nice Guys" are Often Losers
A 'Something Positive' comic on The Nice Guy Dilemma
...and my personal favorite, The Man With No Spine: A Parable.
That said, I've dated my best friends, and I've become best friends with people I've dated. The second option always seems to work better in the long run -- if the fire's not there in the beginning, it's not likely it'll ever spark, but if the fire's there and friendship results as the fire cools, it's the best feeling in the world.
Posted by: elhior_manwe
so now all of you "experts" have had three women tell you not to play up to women as friends if you are interested in something else, and the three are the only ones around here I know of, so I would imagine maybe you might want to change philosphy on how to bed someone.
Posted by: Bix VT
Quote:
Originally posted by elhior_manwe
so I would imagine maybe you might want to change philosphy on how to bed someone.
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That is NOT what I'm even remotely thinking about when I ask a girl out on a date, not even close. If that were the case then of course I would ask girls that I don't know. In my opinion, your mate should also be your best friend, hense the reason for asking friends instead of some random hot girl you see on the street...
Posted by: elhior_manwe
Quote:
Originally posted by Bix VT
That is NOT what I'm even remotely thinking about when I ask a girl out on a date, not even close. If that were the case then of course I would ask girls that I don't know. In my opinion, your mate should also be your best friend, hense the reason for asking friends instead of some random hot girl you see on the street...
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i apologize, i didn't really mean it, considering i do not know you. my point was when you become friends with someone it is sometimes uncomforatable to be asked out. even the asking can ruin a friendship. i never want to be concerned about my male friends not just seeing me as a friend but as a love interest. so i have limited male friends and that is to bad. ofcourse asking out random people makes it hard for people to meet each other...to actually meet people that have common interests. but that is the world in which we live, it is called dating, and I have never met anyone that has honestly had it easy unless they were ,and met someone, that was incredibly shallow. i don't know how old you are bix vt but i would assume you are reletively young and have some years of emotional pain in the arena of relationships...i by the way still have the same problems.
Posted by: 9:35
Quote:
Originally posted by Bunmiadefisayo
For the record, there is no such thing as a Nerd. I hate that f**king term, whats it supposed to mean anyway?
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If Bunmiadefisayo doesn't like a word, that means it doesn't exist. Okay.
Posted by: Xoncide
Quote:
Originally posted by 9:35
If Bunmiadefisayo doesn't like a word, that means it doesn't exist. Okay.
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I guess motion really doesn’t exist after all then…
Posted by: FadedMaster
Thanks everyone. I'm a lot better by the way. I'm not depressed anymore.
Anyways, All I really have to say is that I act older than I am, I mean, at least that's how my close friends see it. So I'm guessing that, while I want an actual relationship, everyone else is screwing like rabbits. Heh heh. By the way, I'm not interested in sex. I don't believe in sexual overendulgence. I'm a Buddhist. I've learned that wanting only leads to pain, pain caused by not having. Anyways, the friend of mine is cool with me asking her out. She just shrugged it off, and I'm cool with being her friend still.
Thanks again everyone.
Posted by: Bix VT
elhior_manwe: I apologize, I didn't mean to sound rude or flame you or anything. I'm 18, and yeah, I do have a few years of relationship crap under my belt, but hey, the one relationship that worked out for me really worked out...thus the reason I keep trying.
Amazing how girls can turn a guy's world upside-down any time they want to...with as small a thing as moving a finger.
Posted by: Gerbilo
Quote:
Originally posted by Yumaddar
Faded, are you familier with the ladder theory?
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ladder theory pwns! made a good read
Posted by: AOTY2KB
geek
The term now enjoys a special status within the technical community, particularly among particularly knowledgable computer programmers. To identify oneself as a "geek" indicates a recognition that most people still consider programming computers to be a bizarre act, along with a certain fierce satisfaction in being very good at their inglorious profession.
That most software geeks now easily earn twice as much as the average laborer just sweetens their defiant embrace of the term.
Note: Unlike the word "nerd," which is always pejorative, "geek" often carries a positive connotation when used by one of the group. The use of the term by outsiders is considered insulting.
"If you really need the right answer, check with Bob; he's our resident alpha geek."
previously a 4 letter word, now a 6 figure salary
Someone who is smart, and knows it. He/she is usually smarter than you. A geek will sit at the computer for hours on end, but somehow, only half of this time is spent communicating with other people. The other half of the time is spent either learning a new language, perfecting it, or programming amazing things with it, or playing games at a LAN party. Geeks often are made fun of, and sometimes confused with nerd and dork. Geeks are not always computer savvy though. They spend a lot of time reading science fiction and non-fiction
nerd
A unattractive, socially clumsy or unstylish individual
A timid, socially challenged person who is constantly being beat up on by the jocks because he looks different than everybody else and wears clothes that aren't recommended by rap artists. Usually very smart, but don't have friends because they are, as mentioned before, socially challenged
_____________________________________________________
Simply Put...
Nerd and geek are often confused
A nerd is someone of high intelligence, will little social life and communication skills
A geek is someone of high intelligence, with a social life and can communicate with others
All available at urbandictionary.com
______________________________________________________
I AM A CANADIAN GEEK AND F!#$%^& PROUD OF IT!!!!!!!!
AttackOfTheY2KBug
Posted by: IceBreaker
"Familiarity breeds contempt"
I always wondered who the author of that proverb was ...
...it may well have been a jilted lover.. http://forum.presence-pc.com/images/ohwell.gif
Anyways, I find this whole "I don't want to ruin our friendship"..."argument" simply preposterous - where would the world be headed if friendship & love were considered mutually exclusive?!! http://forum.presence-pc.com/images/halalala.gif
Posted by: Bix VT
Quote:
I agree completely.
Posted by: IceBreaker
Quote:
Originally posted by Bix VT
I agree completely.
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Hmm...there's something wrong here http://forum.presence-pc.com/images...20le%20loup.gif
Posted by: Bix VT
I don't see any reason why your love interest should not be your best friend as well. Honestly, if your love interest should be the person you trust most, as well as the one person you can count on to be there for you 24/7/365. I'd say that would qualify as "best friend", wouldn't you?
Posted by: armystud0911
agreed Bix!
Posted by: IceBreaker
So we are (at least) three to agree then 
Perhaps there is hope after all. Perhaps the world can - yet - be saved
Posted by: armystud0911
No, I actually know four separate girls on different levels who have explicitly explained their belief on the friendship>dating theory and that it works for them.
Posted by: Bix VT
*sighs*
to each thier own I suppose...
Posted by: Yumaddar
oh! oh! I agree, too!
But I still hold behind the ladder theory. It just plain makes sense. It doesn't suggest that everyone is an ******* (though, that does seem to be the authors personal opinion) It just suggests that there is not love without an initial attraction.
Personally, I don't believe in 'nice guys' or 'nice girls'. That term is bullshit. It suggests that a a nice guy can't be, or rather, wont be, physically attracted to the girl he goes out with. And I also believe that it's bullshit that a girl's decision to go out with a guy wont be affected by the physical attraction factor.
Lets face it, people are drawn to things that are physically attracting.
Posted by: RAcastClarke
I consider myself a loser. That is why I was so shocked when I got asked to the prom by a really cute girl whom I know somewhat...it was nice.
Of course, if you read the post, you know what happened....
So close, but yet so far...!
Argh!!
Posted by: uh...ok
As much as I myself believe the Ladder Theory and apply its mode of thought to a lot of situations, I always try to do so while keeping in mind that it's also likely to be incorrect. It explains a lot of things, but it does not propose a valid solution (and it also discounts some other possibly valid ones) to the problem.
You can read and talk about it all you want - but in the end, it really depends on each individual's own unique experiences and personality.
Posted by: Null Actor
The ladder theory is bullshit made up by a man who hates women. First person to link it gets a free punch in the nose.
Posted by: Bix VT
I just can't help myself: http://www.intellectualwhores.com/masterladder.html
Posted by: redwench
*bites bix*
Posted by: Bix VT
http://www.computerpannen.com/cwm/cwm/cwm/eek6.gif
OUCH!
Posted by: Xoncide
i may sound stupid here, but what is this ladder theory?
Posted by: redwench
sigh.
women place men on one of 2 ladders: sex ladder and friend ladder. there is no cross-over. men have 1 ladder.
thats basically it.
Posted by: Xoncide
Quote:
Originally posted by Null Actor
The ladder theory is bullshit made up by a man who hates women. First person to link it gets a free punch in the nose.
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agreed
Posted by: IceBreaker
Quote:
Originally posted by redwench
sigh.
women place men on one of 2 ladders: sex ladder and friend ladder. there is no cross-over
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Oh? http://forum.presence-pc.com/images/hotb.gif
Posted by: Gerbilo
there is.. you just get a good chance of being kicked into the abyss!!
Posted by: IceBreaker
Quote:
Originally posted by Gerbilo
there is.. you just get a good chance of being kicked into the abyss!!
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http://www.opentechsupport.net/foru...icons/icon5.gif that's not a cross-over...
And anyways, in some cases you're better off in the abyss
Posted by: Bix VT
Well, I'd say that there is a way to get from one ladder to the other: you jump. Your chances of falling completely off are great, and you also have a chance of knocking everyone off both ladders for a short period of time...
Posted by: Yumaddar
Quote:
Originally posted by redwench
sigh.
women place men on one of 2 ladders: sex ladder and friend ladder. there is no cross-over. men have 1 ladder.
thats basically it.
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I think your missing the point of the theory. The 'ladders' are just representations of behavior. The entire theory is basically based on how we rate sexual attraction subconciousely. There is, of course, more to it than sex, but the author is to biased to admit it. I think the fact that the author is an ******* limmits his ability to write truthful opinions on the subject, but the ladder theory holds truth.
Very fankly, anyone who claims to not care either way about sexual attraction is bullshiting him/herself, and the people around him/her.
Posted by: redwench
i gave him the cliff notes, not the doctoral thesis.
Posted by: elhior_manwe
the ladder "theory" illustrates why some men need some serious therapy and or shock treatment.
Posted by: Canis Lupus
http://www.86ed.org/theemon/Thee/engineersview.jpg
pic worth a thousand words .... sorry for the spam
Posted by: Yumaddar
What an interesting and valid argument.... 0o
EDIT: Canis, I can't see the pic.
EDIT2: nvm. I see it now. lol.
Posted by: armystud0911
yup, Canis summed it all up, topic closed.
Posted by: Bix VT
indeed, it is true.
Posted by: Yumaddar
Welp, this thread is gonna die soon. Perhaps we should do a memorial service.
Posted by: Taliban
I agree to with the pic...
I wanted to post to but it seems the thread its over, so i just desire to all of you good luck with your next, (or first) girlfriend
Posted by: uh...ok
Hahaha that's an awesome picture.
Anyhow, as I mentioned before, I think the Ladder Theory at the very least offers some degree of insight about relationships - and it does make you think... as with anything in this world, just don't buy too much into it and you'll be okay.
Posted by: Canis Lupus
Since everyone's saying the topic is dead, it's closed ... unless there's a reason for me to reopen it? Send me a PM...
By the way, all stupid posts have been pruned ... yes ... "ALL" and "STUPID"
Have a nice day!
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