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Moon Landings...what is that?
(Click here to view the original thread with full colors/images)
Posted by: Chako
I seriously think some people need some help. Take this site for example. I looked at the material on this site with utter incredulity chiseled on my visage. To think, if the author or group who thought up this junk could have channeled their energies into something more productive.....
http://www.mohammedi.freeserve.co.uk/moonshots.html
Posted by: Kdr Kane
You must have missed the show. FOX had a program on within the last year putting forth those ideas. It's nothing new. The show had a lot of errors in it. So, I am happy they discredited themselves.
I'm sure the Soviet Union was in on it with the Americans back in the 60's. Yeah, sure! 
By the way, they are people who still believe in the Flat Earth Theory.
Didn't you ever have a childhood fantasy that everything was a stage put on for your benefit? That the world revolved around you? Sort of like the Truman Show? Opps. Now, I let out my little dark secret!
Posted by: Chako
Yes, didn't see that one, but then I don't watch Fox. It was a surprise that people don't believe in the moon landing. In retrospect...I shouldn't have been so surprised considering that I knew about the flat earth believers. They even have their own site…which must lend them some credibility.
http://www.flat-earth.org/
Posted by: Shalome
Conspiracy theorists, while entertaining, are hard to argue with. This is not because they're RIGHT, but because they are working with a logic that allows them to pick and choose facts at their leisure. Like the people who claim the Holocaust never happened. Never mind the concentration camps, the mass graves, the survivors with the tattoos on their arms, the testimony of thousands of G.I.s....
People will believe what they want to believe. Ever try to convince a Christian that God, scientifically, doesn't exist?
-Shalome
...always one to play the devil's advocate... no pun intended...
Posted by: Canis Lupus
Hmmm Shalome, then again, there are things that science can't fully give answers to that have been attributed to God ... there are lots of things science can't explain with absolute certainty, that is why we have postulates, hypotheses and theories...
I mean, does everyone really believe the Big Bang Theory:
First there was nothing, then it exploded....
Uhm, right...
Posted by: laborat
Then there are the things that neither God nor Science
can explain: Like having one saltine left over in a pack,
crying at movies, and Malto-meal.
oh yeah. I prefer to think there was a BIG BANG then nothing...
it would explain a lot...
Posted by: Shalome
Just for the record, I didn't say I DIDN'T believe in God, or that I believed science could explain everything that ever has happened in the history of the universe.. I just like to argue with people.
True example: "God exists because.. well, because.. he just HAS to! I mean, how else would there be such a diverse variety of life on this planet in such a delicate balence if God hadn't created it just so?!?"
Me: "Evolution. Yes, I know Darwin's original theories proved to be flawed, but the new theories of evolution explain how ecosystems work and maintain a balance and how species develop or go extinct."
Devout Christian: "According to the Bible, evolution is bunk."
See? People working with two different sets of "facts."
And also, Canis, that's not exactly the Big Bang theory. 
-Shalome
Posted by: Spider
 Quote:
Originally posted by Shalome
Me: "Evolution. Yes, I know Darwin's original theories proved to be flawed, but the new theories of evolution explain how ecosystems work and maintain a balance and how species develop or go extinct."
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You mean Wallace.
Posted by: Shalome
Nope, I mean Darwin. Darwin' theory proved to have stumbling points, as any strict Creationist will throw at you ("Scientists today even agree that Darwin was wrong!!" - - which is true, but false at the same time.). Current theories are based heavily on Darwin's work, but Darwin's theories weren't exact.
-Shalome
Posted by: Canis Lupus
Quote:
Originally posted by Shalome
And also, Canis, that's not exactly the Big Bang theory.
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Hehe, of course not ... scientists always word it as complicated as possible ... just decided to summarize it in one sentence to inject humor into the theory ... but you have to admit that's the gist of it 
A cosmological theory holding that the universe originated approximately 20 billion years ago from the violent explosion of a very small agglomeration of matter of extremely high density and temperature.
But Science also dictates that everything has to have an origin... so where did this "matter of extremely high density and temperature" come from? Therein lies the flaw in the fundamental theory of how "everything" came to be 
For the record, I was born a Catholic, but ..... but let's leave it at that
Posted by: Shalome
Same here, Canis.
-Shalome
Posted by: CETORT
bah
it's all just theories.
people worry so much about *where* we came from, that they don't pay attention to *where* we are going. that's probably the world's biggest problem today.
Posted by: Bishop
the search for origins has probally been one of the major things humans tend to do (other than gross stupidity of course)
me, I don't care about how we got here, or why.
simple fact is, we're here.
the people who are too far occupied with the past (as in, before there was a past) are usually the same kind of people who ahh **** it too tired to write something coherent here.
Posted by: Chako
As a science teacher, I don't know if I should be insulted or delighted. It is human nature to categorize what we know, and to postulate theories on what we don't so that we can better understand it. The danger is in believing that those theories are factual. As an educator, it is an easy trap to fall into.
Many people believe that science holds all the answers when in fact it is a tabula rosa (blank slate) constantly rewritten with new data (real and imagined). Religion falls under the same category with a significant difference (it does not bother to rewrite, but is stagnant. Instead of dealing with new discoveries, it relies on faith, and the firm beliefs that all is known. I firmly believe that religion and science came about to explain the unknown. For humanity, the unknown is fearful. Both science and religion stems from this fear, from the constant need to make the unknown...known.
As for religion, it is all to easy to say God made it so. It requires no thought, or action on the person saying it. At least scientist make an active effort in their research and don't try and force their theories on you. 
*Add on part* After reading my post, it sounds like I am against religions of all types. Actually I am not against religion, I am Roman Catholic myself. What I am against is the apathy such beliefs creates in certain fields.
Posted by: uh...ok
THIS kind of thread after I finished reading The Axemaker's Gift and Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance (well I'm in the middle of the latter)???
*runs away screaming*
-uh...ok
Posted by: Chako
Uh oK..to lighten this thread up.
The Salary Theorem
"Salary Theorem" states that "Computer technicians can never earn as much as business executives and sales people." This theorem can now be supported by a mathematical equation based on the following two postulates:
1. Knowledge is Power.
2. Time is Money.
Now, recall from physics class:
Power = Work / Time
Since Knowledge = Power, and Time = Money, then Knowledge = Work/Money.
Solving for Money, we get: Money = Work / Knowledge.
Thus, as Knowledge approaches zero, Money approaches infinity, regardless of the amount of work done.
Conclusion: The less you know, the more you make.
Posted by: uh...ok
http://www.jps.net/~tanis/pics/GirlsEvil.jpg
-uh...ok
Posted by: Xenomoff
i was gonna post a reply in all my seriousness
when i came to chako's and uh ok's posts.... then
BAM everything went out of my head into a BIG LOL,
and i forgot what i was gonna write...
it doesn't matter now. hehe "the less you know, the
more you earn" that sounds really true for some jobs
i know. and "girl=evil" hmmm i had just got my very
first girlfriend in my long and lonely 27 years... and i'm
not sure if i agree with this. but "girl=money" ? couldn't
agree with you more although it is well worth it if
spent for the right person *aaawww*
so, the vendor was like "hurry up with those goods"
and i was like "whatever!" the vendor is such a dork
Agora Delivery Man
Zeus: Master of Olympus
(just a game i'm playing right now,
in case you don't get it )
Posted by: Auruspex
im with bishy on this one
Posted by: Bishop
I like Salt.
Do you like Salt too, Auruspex?
Are you eating Salt Now?
I am.
Posted by: JANNA
where did god come from then???
if god is all powerful.... can he make a stone he cant lift??
some very sound proof of god would be to find a space alien with an alien bible that replicates our own....
if god is just how come he condemns everyone to hell if they arent a jew?? or have not accepted the name of christ ( pick ur religion)?? so does this mean that all men before Jesus who died no matter how good they were (indians tribesmen eskimos etc)are in hell?? If god is so concerned about man why does he let the catholic church horde gold and other misdeeds perpetrated by the popes without even so much as a email in the last 2000 years??
i prefer to think that the universe runs on a much simpler yet grander set of rules that we can only attribute to "god" and they cannot be defined by the laws of men whether they are religous or scientific. the universe as a whole cannot be explained in terms of people or god it doesnt work that way. people do not have the ability to comprehend the true nature of the universe so :P we cant even get a pope who sees common sense how can he dictate then dictate the "word" of god??
Posted by: Kdr Kane
Janna,
The simple answer is that God gives men and women free choice. Don't say that God has never sent an email when you make a reference to the Bible being generally available.
The most difficult answer for some people is that there are no answers to all of our questions. Many people are just uncomfortable and insecure when they don't have all of the answers. So, they make them up as they go along.
CONTROL seems to be the biggest issue and concern people have with each other, the world and relationships. If people didn't have to be in control so much, they would be much happier.
As for your condemnation of all other faiths to hell, you sound like a radical Pentecostal preacher. It's been my experience that most faiths don't practice that belief.
Posted by: Shalome
Special! This week only! Four threads for the price of one!
Heh. What else can we throw in here? Moon landing conspiracy theory, evolution, the existence/nonexistence of god, random theorums and proofs... the eating of salt...
Eclectic is good.
-Shalome
Posted by: laborat
In the spirit of full disclosure, I must say that I am a member of a small but determined fundamentalist Christian Brush Arbor Church
that advocates a return of the FLOOD, and testifies to their beliefs by peppering Pagans and Non-believers with water balloons. Having said that, Let's make a few things clear here...
or less clear depending on which side you think you are on...
Let's forget GOD for the moment and concentrate on MAN. We can be at times anything less than noble, petty, spiteful, and opportunistic, not to mention stupid and gullible. We hold to our mythologies, historys, and legends passed down from one generation to the next...all of which contain one particular and troubling theme...
You mess with the Gods you are Toast...If you think you can be a God you are toast...If you do something that contravenes Gods Law you are toast...
This applies to ALL cultures, past and present, unknown, and supposed...I left out Future but most futures are based upon Faith that there is an afterlife. That I believe in God and an afterlife does not stop me from looking at Religion with a skeptics
knife...As I pare away the Dogmas attached to most of them, I find that Most if not all claim to follow Gods Law and the LAW is gospel and unassailable. yet in nowhere in my research did I find GOD behind the law, only Men in Power, or Power enough to back their claims.
It has always come down to Zealots, Opportunists, and Heretics.
It has been well documented in my view on how, MEN have bent, altered, left out or ignored God's Law if it suited their political purpose. I have always been convinced that the first Heretic was stoned, burned, drowned, or beheaded merely for saying, "Since when did God put YOU in charge..." I also think it was probably a woman that said that but thats another story.
No matter what your beliefs, your religious background, your upbringing...one thing holds true for all of us and that is our relationship with God is ours and ours alone. How we choose to interact with Him through prayer or deed is left to our own devices. While the Church (any organized body) instructs us in our Faith, it still lies within us how Deep or shallow that Faith may run. What bothers me the most about Religious Debate is that we are so content with the Images of God (made by MEN) our Histories have given us, that we no longer look for Definitions of GOD that make sense in our Time.
We reject the notion of God because it doesn't conform to the notions of Science or even Educated Common Sense...or we cling Blindly to our belief in God without stopping to think if another mans defintion of God is better than our own. Those who take the middle ground between Non-Believer and Zealot are often the ones that are hung on Crosses. Simply because their Faith or lack of it, could not protect them from a larger Force of Men with their own definitions and Agenda. Man has always taken his beliefs seriously, flawed or no...And whole Races, Cultures, and Peoples have been killed by MAN in God's Name for simply being different.
And Yet there are miracles enough that have yet to be explained by Science or Religion...enough for me to think that God is more flexible than we have been taught. These are not the miracles of parted Seas, Loaves and Fishes, Evolution or the Big Bang, but rather: smiles at the right moment, love at first sight, a child's wonder at the world, an unexpected kindness, strangers you meet who you have known forever...I believe that whatever is Good in all of us, is God...and that darkness that comes to all of us(Evil is an invention of MAN) is nothing more than an temporary inability to know God, in our own way, in our own time...
Posted by: Shalome
Amen, brother.
-Shalome
Posted by: Canis Lupus
Thank God I'm an Atheist...
j/k
Posted by: Chako
Well you did ask Shalome.
How about the Skull and Bone conspiracy theory?
(Don't ask how I came upon this topic as I generally don't do conspiracy theories. The moon landing conspiracy I posted because I found if humorous).
I did manage to read all this stuff on the web site which I shall provide below. Even bothered to read the white paper allegedly written from someone in Japan. Like all good conspiracy theories, it sounds rather plausible. Not 100% up on American history, so I will let you guys read it and ponder, debate, gnash teeth, and/or...eat salt!
Oh by the way if it is true, then it is worrisome. Wonder if Bush jr is in it (if such an organization exist...the authors seemed to have done a lot of homework though..who knows) as his father and grandfather (allegedly).
http://www.parascope.com/articles/0997/skullbones.htm
Posted by: Chako
Labby, did you know that a group of crack pots called "Scientologist" are the largest growing group of cultist around. Read a newspaper article about them a few weeks ago. They claim some nut case in the State of New York found some lost scrolls or something in the late 1800s. They even go there on an annual pilgrimage, dress like bad Sunday night two bit bible actors and put on a laser and light show for the masses. The scary part was the vacant insipid smiles and the gleam of their eyes, a sign of fanatics.
Posted by: laborat
Yeah I know about Scientologists or Hubbardinians...In one of
my past lives, in Boston, I had one for a room mate...he kept wanting me to try out his bio-feed back machine.. for a price of course...L.Ron Hubbard the ultimate cynic was a Bmovie science fiction writer who discovered there was more money in inventing your own religion...He was right.
Posted by: Bishop
I work for the Cabal.
Posted by: Bishop
THERE IS A GOD!
and he stole a giant microscope.
http://www.bossmonster.com/games/antcity.html
play or spend eternity burning.
Posted by: Auruspex
yes i am oh bishy one
Posted by: RavenStorm
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Posted by: Digitalphatman
Maybe I am wrong, but is there concrete proof of evolution... i mean actual skeletons that show a natural progression from monkeys to humans?
I am not saying that Evolution is wrong, but it is a science. And science has been proven wrong over and over again. Scientists even contradict themselves on the age of the universe. THey keep finding its older than previously thought. So is evolution correct, maybe or it could be wrong.
Yes I am one of those (evil) Catholic. I have been born one, and still am one. The Catholic Church is not correct and many times they get me upset. But i kind of feel( again i may be wrong) there is kind of a catholic/God bashing going on here.
The bible was written for a different time...whether the science of it is correct is of no matter. If there is anything people take away from it, it should be love your neighbors and love your self, not the science of it.
Posted by: Digitalphatman
Raven you are right NASA should have a much larger budget....at least double its current one.
Posted by: Bishop
The only thing to go in with religion is faith.
for all we know the bible was written by a bunch of drunken jews.
mind you, going around demanding proof for things is moronic.
You believe something that has no concrete proof, and yet you argue that someone else's belief is wrong because there is no concrete proof?
I find this amusing.
Posted by: Lord_Buttplug
The only problem with actually looking at the stuff on the moon is that the resolution needed by the telescope is around 1.5E-3 arc seconds, which if I remember correctly equates out to about a 15 meter telescope (might be off on this, been years since I worked it out). Think most earth bound telescopes are limited to about .1 arc seconds due to the atmosphere. This might change some with active adaptive optics, but I ain't holding my breath.
Posted by: Shalome
Quote:
Digitalphatman:
Maybe I am wrong, but is there concrete proof of evolution... i mean actual skeletons that show a natural progression from monkeys to humans?
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Um... Yes, yes, there is. Ever been to a museum of natural history???
- Shalome
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