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What's a good system for gaming?
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Posted by: Mathias
Ok, here's the thing, I want to play Final Fantasy XI on my machine, which I can, but I want it to play as smoothly as possible (my computer only got 1100 on the benchmark test for FFXI). Since I can't really control my internet connection at the moment, the best I can do is make my computer as good as possible. Here's my current system configuration (thank god for Sandra)
Processor
- Intel(R) Celeron(R) CPU 2.60 GHz
Mainboard
- Bus(es) - ISA X-Bus PCI IMB PCMCIA USB Firewire/1394 ic2/SMBus
- System BIOS - Phoenix 6.0
- Mainboard - Trigem Computer, Inc. Imperial
- Total Memory - 766 DDR-SDRAM
Chipset 1
- Model - Trigem Computer Inc 82845G/GL/GE Brookdale Host-Hub Interface Bridge (B1-step)
- Front Side Bus Speed - 4 x 100 MHz
- Memory Bus Speed - 2 x 133 MHz
- Shard Memory - 1 MB
Video System
- Monitor/Panel - Plug And Play Monitor
- Adapter - NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200
- Adapter - Intel(R) 82845G/GL/GE/PE/GV Graphics Controller
Physical Storage Devices
- Hard Disk - ST340015A (37.3 GB)
- Hard Disk - WDC WD200B-00AUA1 (18.6 GB)
- CD-ROM/DVD - SAMSUNG CD-R/RW SW-248F (CD 48xRd 48xWr)
Logical Storage Devices
- Hard Disk ( C: ) - 37.3 GB (13.7 GB, 37% Free) (NTFS)
- Hard Disk ( E: ) - 18.6 GB (4.6 GB, 25% Free) (FAT32)
Operating System(s)
- Microsoft Windows XP/2002 Home(Win32 x86/IA32) 5.01.2600 (Service Pack 1)
I left out most of the stuff I thought wasn't necessary.
Anyways, I want a system that can run MMORPGs like FFXI pretty good, but I don't want to spend a fortune. Let's say I have a budget between 1k - 2k. And don't even mention Alien ware, unless they're really worth it. Oh and if anyone needs more system info, just tell me and I'll post it.
By the way, I've noticed some problems with my mainboard when I checked it out with a specific scan.
- Notice 224 - SMBIOS/DMI information may be inaccurate
- Warning 2507 - Mainboard has too few memory slots. Upgrading the memory may be difficult or expensive.
- Warning 2508 - All memory slots are full. Upgrading the memory may be difficult or expensive.
- Warning 2544 - System/Video shared memory greatly reduces performance. Use external video card.
- Warning 2545 - Large memory modules should be Registered/Buffered.
- Tip 2546 - Large memory modules should be ECC/Parity.
Now, some of these are self explanatory, but what the hell does Registered/Buffered and ECC/Parity mean?
Oh and keep in mind that I'm a 17-year old who is a novice at buying the right computer parts and just now realizing that top-of-the-line stuff is overpriced and that most computer systems pre-constructed and sold in places like Wal-Mart are crap. Oh and a novice at being a smart consumer. Also, I may not understand the most technical parts of my computer, since I've never really looked inside it or bothered to find out what it's made of.
Posted by: ianelarazure
Well, if youll be playing a MMORPG, I would suggest a 256MB video card, a decent one. Probably around $200-$300. Most MMORPGs use ALOT of textures and tend to need more memory than speed in a video card.
For FFXI the recommended specs are:
Recommended Specs on the box:
OS: Windows XP
CPU: Pentium 4 (so at least 1.6 ghz)
Memory: 256mb [I still recommend at least 512mb especially for WinXP]
Graphics: NVIDIA GeForce with 64mb VRAM
Sound card: DirectX 8.1 compatible
Hard drive space: at least 6 gigs
CD-ROM Speed: 32x or faster (required only at installation)
Internet: Always on (broadband/DSL/Cable or better)
Other: Keyboard with numeric pad, mouse with scroll wheel
But I would definitely go with a 256MB video card.
It seems like your current system could run this easily, I bet if you just upgraded that 5200 of yours to a nicer card, it would improve performance greatly. You could probably run on Mid/High settings just fine then.
Posted by: Mathias
I kinda have most of that already, cept for the 256 VRAM card you reccomended.
I've heard that BUS speed, harddrive streaming speed and things like "waiting time" factor into how good your computer runs, especially with games, this true?
Posted by: ianelarazure
I know the Bus speed factors in, but not in a major way. I dont know about the hdd though. If all the textures and such are loaded from your system, then yes it would. But if they are Server-side, then hdd wouldnt matter much.
I have played Everquest recently on a p3 800Mhz cpu, with 512 sdram at 133, and a nice 256MB geforcefx 5600 card. It ran flawlessly, I could go to raids and not lag one bit, this was on 1.5 Mbps DSL though. So pretty much I had a good connection and a good vid. card, and it ran fine. The only thing I know about FFXI is that it is more video intensive than EQ.
Posted by: Mathias
Can I get a second opinion? And any answers as to what this Registered/Buffered and ECC/Parity memory is all about?
Posted by: Superfly3176
Registered/ECC Ram(DDR)- Is primarily used in servers, or the early athlon 64 fx's. It sacrifices some speed to do error checking.
Unbuffered ram(DDR)- standard ram used in newer machines today. It ranges from PC1600-PC4400.
As far as graphics cards go I don't know if you'll need a 256mb(but I don't play mmorpg's). Most newer games like the FX5700 and above, or the Radeon 9500 and above.
Posted by: Bix VT
If you plan on running smoothly, check out the P4C 3.2ghz, paired with a ATi 9800 PRO. You can get a cheaper 128meg version of the 9800PRO here.
Ideal for gaming would be 3.0+ ghz (or the AMD counterpart) 1 gig of PC3200 ram and that video card. Unless you plan on going all out, in which case I can do soem shopping and then link you to the cart. You can get a 100% decked out system for 1500-2000 USD.
Posted by: Mathias
Aren't there other ATI and GeForce FX models with the same amount of VRAM for like 1/2 the price of that?
And I also need a processor that can support that much RAM you mentioned. One that I heard of was the ASUS a7n8x, which I hear is best for gaming purposes, but doesn't support Intel processors, and the ones it does support goes up to 3.0 GHz.
Posted by: Superfly3176
Yea there is, check out www.pricewatch.com
But, anything under 9700 will take a major performance hit due to the lack of rendering pipelines and lack of bitrate.
9700 was and ingenious card, the best of its time. it introduced 8x rendering pipelines and 256-bit.
The lowest I'd go is a 9600pro, and your not going to find a better deal than ati's line right now. The lowest i'd go on the nvidia line is a 5700 Ultra (however don't mark my words you may want to talk to someone who knows nvidia's line better than i do).
All I'm saying is if you can get a 9800 for 135 thats a killer deal.
9800 for $135
EDIT: If you had a 1000-2000 budget as you said this is what I'd get. You can get a great gaming rig for under 700 inc shipping and not including hard drives(you stated you had), monitor, keyboard, mouse and speakers.
As far as amd goes this is what I would get http://secure.newegg.com/app/shoppi...A=1&submit=view
Posted by: Mathias
OK, I've looked around and so far I've decided to try and look for an ATI Radeon >= 9700 w/ 256 MB of VRAM for < 200.00 USD or an nVidia GeForce FX >= 5700 w/ 256 MB of VRAM for < 200.00 USD.
As for a motherboard, I'm currently looking at teh ASUS a7n8x and Deluxe version of said board. It can hold a good amount of RAM, which will be important, but the thing that worries me is the FSB speed (only 100 - 333 MHz I think) and the maximum processor speed (3.0 GHz), plus it has to be an Athlon or AMD processor, no Intels. So, could someone reccomend a board that holds 1+ GB of RAM, 333+ MHz FSB speed and max processor speed of 3.0+ GHz?
Oh and I may also need a hardrive with fast HDD, something along the lines of 5500+ rev/min (or is rev/s?)
And although I said I have a budget between 1k - 2k, I want to try to limit it to 500 - 1k now.
Posted by: Bix VT
Don't forget, the amount of vram on a gfx card isn't everything.
Most hdds run at a standard 7200 rpm now, so your speed requirements shouldn't be a problem.
Just about every Athlon XP board out there will support at least 1.5gb of ram, if not 3gb. It all depends on what size sticks of ram you buy. And building a gaming comp under 1k should be easy enough, but I would definately reccomend a better video card than the ATi 9700 or the GFFX 5700. I use the GFFX 5700 Ultra and it doesn't run slow down much during FFXI, but it does slow down sometimes. It has 128megs of DDR3. I'd reccomend going with an ATi 9800PRO for around $200. You can find them at www.newegg.com. That would be your best bet if you are trying to get a great gaming card on a budget.
Posted by: Superfly3176
You may also want to check out the vga charts. http://graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/20031229/
In alot of cases a 9800pro will beat out a 5950 Ultra, this makes it a very desirable card, as it costs like $150 dollars less than a 5950U.
You may also want to check out this website, they have board reviews. http://www.hardwarezone.com/article...=773&cid=6&pg=2
If you scroll down there are more nforce2 Ultra 400 boards listed. That msi boards is like $58 on www.newegg.com
Alot of the boards do 100/133/166/200. The 200 means they can support up to a 3200+
Posted by: Mathias
So you're saying only 128 MB of VRAM on a high enough #'ed model of ATI or GeForce is enough? Well, I guess that's good. Probably if I back it up with enough memory, like 1 GB, it'll be enough to run a good MMORPG without lag, or very little lag.
As for a motherboard, a $75 - $125 ASUS board seems like my best bet, seeing as it'll support more than enough memory than I need, pretty good FSB speed and 3.0 GHz processors should be effecient.
Now I just need a 3.0 GHz processor and I'll be in buisness.
Oh, does the type of RAM I buy really matter? I mean, I already have 768 MB of RAM in my current computer, seems like a waste to buy a new type of RAM to replace it all.
Edit - By the way, the best video card in existance at the moment seems to be the GeForce FX 6800 (I think that was the number), but of course it's between $500.00 - $600.00. Just FYI.
Posted by: Superfly3176
I don't know about asus if it doesnt support 200fsb, than you cant run the higher end processors. Ram does matter you'll need pc3200 to run at 200fsb. And i don't know if you have pc3200. Theres a program to see what type of ram called cpu-z it tells you processor cache and if you click memory it tells you the memory type and what PCxxxx it is.
Yes a 128mb card will be good enough, I personally have a radeon 9800pro and I don't even lag in Doom 3.
As for the 6800 this is somewhat true, its performance is superb in doom 3, however ati has the advantage in half life 2 by as much as nvidia has the advantage in doom 3.
As for processors if you get that asus board a 3000+ will be as far as you can go, which isnt bad at all.
Posted by: Mathias
I think both my memory sticks are PC2700, though the number was part of a bigger series, like PC2700U-2553-700.
Posted by: Bix VT
In that case, you won't be able to operate at a fsb of more than 333mhz. Which will limit your speed quite a bit.
And AMD doesn't make a 3ghz cpu. I believe the fastest clock speed that AMD offers is 2.4 ghz on the Athlon64 3800+ and FX-53.
Posted by: Superfly3176
Yes, Bix is right. However AMD is something like 40% faster than intel per clock cycle. So a 3000+ is somewhat comparable to a 3.0ghz processor.
If they are PC2700 sticks than what you have a stick of 512 and a stick of 256? I'd just buy another stick of 256mb than you should be good.
Posted by: Mathias
Yeah, that's right. Course I'd need a new board to support the 3rd stick, but yeah.
What kind of RAM would I need to have a FSB of like 400 - 500 MHz?
Posted by: Superfly3176
for 400Fsb that is PC3200, PC4000 is 500fsb. Note no processors need 500fsb yet. It is strictly for overclocking.
Posted by: Mathias
OK, here's the overall picture I'm looking at here...
ATI Radeon 9800(PRO) - 128 MB
PC 3200 RAM - 1 GB
ASUS a7n8x (Deluxe) motherboard - 3 GB max RAM - 3.0 GHz max CPU
AMD/Athlon Processor - Highest Hz I can get
80 GB Hardrive - 7200 RPMs (Maybe)
I estimate all this around $750 bucks. Sound like a good setup?
Posted by: Bix VT
Looks good. For that mobo, I'd reccomend the Athlon XP 3200+. It's the fastest Socket A that they make, as far as I know. I think it runs at 2.2ghz, but as Superfly said, AMDs are far more effiecient than Intels. It'll run about as fast as an P4C 3.0-3.2ghz.
The fsb of that cpu is stock at 400mhz, which will match up perfectly with the PC3200 ram that you're buying. I would personally get some PC3500 or PC3700 simply in case the games are running a bit slow, then I can get one or two more fps. I'm running some OCZ PC3700 in my XP-M 2400 right now, and it clocks nicely at 233sys bus (466fsb).
Posted by: Superfly3176
I don't mean to push it, but Athlon64 2800+ is $50 dollars cheaper, than the XP3200+ and it does offer more performance. And you will honestly be more impressed by a athlon64 2800+ than a Athlon XP 3200+.
Like i put in the link you can get a chaintech VNF3-250 for $75. Its a great board, overclockers and enthusiats rave about it. I guess I don't see the point in getting old technology when the new stuff is cheaper. And lets face it, 64-bit has been proven now, or intel wouldn't be jumping to it.
You'd still come out like $25 ahead with the athlon64 setup, but its your choice.
Posted by: Bix VT
Wow. I hadn't looked into Athlon64s much because I always figured they were up there in price with the P4s. If you can get an A64 for cheaper, or even the same price as an XP 3200, then jump on it!
Posted by: Superfly3176
Heres a review of 2800+ http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipset...aspx?i=2038&p=1
It doesn't look to outperform the Xp until gaming happens. Thats why i switched to 64 bit I realized for like 30 dollars more i could get a 3200+ 64 bit(rather than a 3200+ XP), than overclock it. Now it really isn't necessary but i had it at 2.4ghz for awhile (from 2.0ghz) and even had it boot to 2.51ghz.
They are nice processors and it shows in testing.
Posted by: Mathias
Um, if you mean I should buy the Athlon 64 so I can overclock it to outdo the XP, then I'm afraid I can't seeing as how I don't know step 1 about overclocking shit. Plus I think overclocking makes stuff heat up and wear out faster.
Posted by: Superfly3176
No, that's not what im saying. If you buy a 2800+ you will already have a better processor than an Athlon xp3200+. It will give more heat, but adequate cooling should be a neccessity. And who has a pc more than 10 years without upgrading it either? You could always overvolt your ram to like 3.3volt thats been a known killer for athlon 64's.
Posted by: Bix VT
Overclocking does give off more heat, but as long as you have the proper cooling (even the retail hsf will allow at least a 10% OC) it shouldn't be a problem. It may wear out faster, but we're talking about your chip wearing out in 5 years as opposed to 10 years. Do you actually plan on having your computer for 5 years? I know that my computer from 5 years ago has been trashed (Pentium 133).
Anyway, running at stock speeds, with no overclocking, the Athlon64 2800+ is faster than the Athlon XP 3200+.
Posted by: BPGT64
Yeah, the A64s kick tail. I have a 3400 OCed to 2.5. It runs nice around 38-40C and is quiet nice. ALthough DONT push it too hard,I pushed mine to around 2.6 and locked and crashed. Reboot and underclock everything was fine( thank you asus for saving me). Although I have to say if u gonna over clock remeber to increase you Vcore accordingly because it can stablize the overclock as well as make it put out less heat in that if you supply the core enough power say for ocing to 2.4 increase the Vcore to 1.625 and you temps well increase only slightly
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Posted by: Mathias
Well considering my room is almost constantly ACed, I don' think heat should be a problem.
Posted by: BPGT64
well see thats the thing..I used to be in a house that was 80 degrees all the time..Now my dorm stays aroud 70 if not less..This has cut my cpu temps alot!
Posted by: Superfly3176
Well If you ever LAN, than you might end up in someone who's house is hot, therefore the cooling comes in handy.
Posted by: Bix VT
Watercooling is great, but less portable.
Posted by: Superfly3176
If you can deal with the noise, all I have to say is "Vantec Tornadoes/Sunons".
Posted by: Bix VT
That's what I'm getting, but with a fan controller.
Posted by: quiksilver87
can you O/c with that??That thing seems like a beast for 10 bucks(120 CFm)!!! however it goes at 50-60dba!!! So a fan controller is a good idea...do you know how much a fan controller costs?
Posted by: Superfly3176
I have an 80mm it goes at 5800 rpm and a swiftech mcx6400-v. 31C in idle. 37C idle with 400mhz overclock @ 1.7volt, so yea you can oc with it.
Posted by: Bix VT
I'd suggest you browse all of the fan controllers at www.svc.com, they have some really good stuff there.
I personally have this fan controller here. I like it a lot, except for the blue LEDs. I'd like red, but I haven't gotten around to modding them yet.
Posted by: taco_fox
 Quote:
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Originally Posted by Bix VT
I personally have this fan controller here. I like it a lot, except for the blue LEDs. I'd like red, but I haven't gotten around to modding them yet. |
Right on http://www.tacofox.net/stuff/thumbs_up.gif
http://www.tacofox.net/stuff/fancontroller.JPG
Posted by: Superfly3176
I want to get one, but theres alot of other stuff i want to, I want one of those thermaltake tsunami cases and some corsair pc4000, so thats pretty much last on my list.
Posted by: Bix VT
 taco, you are my hero.
Posted by: quiksilver87
hows the cooling in this case??
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProdu...-144-034&depa=0
Posted by: Bix VT
Look good, one fan in the front, one on the side, one on the top and two in the back. Plus the psu fan(s). I'd go for it if I hadn't already bought one on ebay a little while ago.
Posted by: quiksilver87
arent there 2 fans in the front??...for that price i think that case is awesome!!! it is aluminum constructed and comes with a 420 PSU!!!
here are some closer pics...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...2#MyDescription
Posted by: Bix VT
Oh, yes you're right I'm sorry, there are two up front. 6 fans is close to ideal for airflow.
Posted by: quiksilver87
yeah but those case fans seem to push a small amount of air throughout the case...around 30-35 CFM. THe tornadoes push 110 CFM(although they surely wont be working at full power due to the noise)!!
Posted by: armystud0911
Quote:
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Originally Posted by BPGT64
Yeah, the A64s kick tail. I have a 3400 OCed to 2.5.
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Isn't the default speed of a 3400 about 2.5 anyway?
BTW, the best chip on the market right now for OCing is the XP 2500 barton M, I have overclocked mine from the default 1.83GHz to 2.63GHz before, that's well over 3500 speeds. Plus, a 64bit cpu isn't going to show its real beauty until MS releases a 64bit encoded OS, until then, it has little increase over the XP models.
Posted by: Superfly3176
Quote:
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BTW, the best chip on the market right now for OCing is the XP 2500 barton M, I have overclocked mine from the default 1.83GHz to 2.63GHz before, that's well over 3500 speeds.
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Yea thats great and all but you can also overclock a 3500+ and an athlon xp wont being to compare to a 64 especially if both are clocked the same. I could oc my 3200+ clawhammer to 2.4ghz, thats 400mhz and it would beat your barton. I'm not going to argue with it being the best ocing chip, although i heard someone got 2.9ghz from a 2400+ mobile.
As for 64-bit not showing its real beauty, in a way yes in a way no. All you have to do is play games on a 64 to release its so much better than the XP counterparts.
Posted by: Bix VT
2400 XP-M is a gem. I use it, and it r0x0rz my b0x0rz.
But yes, A64 vs Barton @ same clock = A64 wins.
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