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good deal or fraud
(Click here to view the original thread with full colors/images)
Posted by: RBK25
i bid on a hp pavilion zv5227wm on ebay two days ago. here is the specs http://store.novapearl.com/hppazv5160.html
Today i checked "MY EBAY" and seen that i had a second chance offer. i took a look and it basically says that i can buy it now for $900 (my highest bid on that item). the condition is stated as "It's in excellent condition and less than 5 months old!!! CobraCom strives to bring you the best quality used electronics. "
i looked at their feedback and seen 100%, which is good but it is all from sellers. this made me a little suspicious so i wrote them
You asked:
"i was just wandering why you dont have any feedback from any buyers when you own your own store. thanks"
their reply
"Our online store has been opened just a short time. We were aprehensive at first so we slowly have built our reputation as we created the store. Hope this helps. We offered you a 2nd chance offer on one of the HP Pavilion's. I hope this helps. If you don't want this one maybe you will get one later. thanks CobraCom"
I really want this laptop but don't want to get scammed at the same time. Please tell me i am being to paranoid so that i can hit the buy it now button. ha ha
as always thanks for your time
Posted by: RBK25
i know that nobody wants to lead me in the wrong direction by responding to this post, but i am just looking for a fairly knowledgable suggestion of what you would do in this situation. Bottom line, the decision comes down to me, so there is no reason to feel bad if i do get burned. i DEFINITELY will not hold any grudges to anyone on this sight. I also think that paypal and ebay are pretty good about getting my money refunded if i meet their standards on a scam, wouldnt you agree? I probably owe ots about 900 dollars anyways for all the help i have been offered from prior posts!! i have about 12 hours left until the offer ends (as of this post)
thanks
Posted by: redwench
if you have a credit card that will allow chargebacks in case of fraud, and can use it to pay for it, then you can consider it. if you dont, then dont even touch it.
now, to the point. i would be very suspicious that the item is as youve indicated. a 5 month old computer without problems at half the new price? and theyre making a profit, or they wouldnt make a second chance offer. anybody can have a computer they want to dump, but 2 identical ones sounds like there was something so wrong, hp replaced them rather than repaired. so it will be reconditioned at best. read the fine print in the auction. thats assuming there is no outright fraud going on, of course.
as i said, if you have a credit card you can institute a chargeback on later, and are willing to tie up 900 on it for several months, its relatively safe to go for it.
Posted by: RBK25
thanks a lot for your response redrench. i just have a debit/credit mastercard, and i am not sure that i would be refunded or not. wouldnt you assume that all credit/debit cards legally have to refund you for a faulty transaction or whatever my case might be? anyways i emailed them again and this is the story
You asked:
"i guess i need a little more HONEST information from you before i can bring myself to buy this laptop. In comparison to a brand new laptop of this model, exactly what is different with this particular machine. (scuffs, scratches, marks, screen flickering, has been dropped,............ I want to know everything that you know or notice. The price is low enough, so please be honest. i am just waiting to find a catch. sorry i am being such a hastle thanks a lot!!"
Hi ryan, I understand your concern when buying an item like this. This laptop is in very good condition. there isslight scuffing on the base of the laptop(this is normal). The screen shows no signs of any defects. There are slight scuffs on top in left hand corner of machine(barely noticable). As far as we know this laptop has never been dropped. We have run several diagnostics on all of these computers and we have not found any defects at all. As far as the laptop goes, I feel that you will be very happy with it, especially when we are offering it to you at a great price. I just want you to understand that it is in excellent shape, however, it's not new. We offer a 7 day return policy on all items if you are not happy. I hope that this helps. thanks
To me, this is very exciting news but i would love to know what you think about the above reply. Please please stay with me on this! It is a tuff decision, SOMEBODY is going ot get a great deal. hope it is me!
Posted by: Compaq
Hi as a major Ebayer, I would use Paypal to pay for this transaction. Paypal guarantees the purchase. However if it is any consolation you are receiving more response from this seller than I have ever gotten. The seller sounds very honest to me, so I would probably make the purchase. Just a reminder Paypal is free. Just set up an account and you will be completely protected. Hope this helps a little. Take care and good luck.
Posted by: RBK25
You dont know how relieved i am to hear some positives about this possibe purchase. i cant thank you and redrench enough!
i already have a paypal account but i am pretty sure they only refund on a purchase of 500 dollars or less. let me know if i am wrong. i emailed them again with a couple more questions. i agree they have been pretty good with responding to me.
thanks a lot. i will gladly take more suggestions
Posted by: RBK25
here is actually the info that i pulled off the ebay site.
4. Pay safely - Use PayPal.
PayPal is the fast, easy and secure way to pay on eBay. If your seller offers PayPal Buyer Protection, you receive free purchase protection up to $500. And if your seller does not offer PayPal Buyer Protection, PayPal can still try to recover your money if something goes wrong if you use PayPal's Buyer Complaint Process.
Please Note: eBay strongly discourages you from paying for your item with instant cash transfer services such as Western Union or MoneyGram. Money transfer services offer no buyer protection and are not designed to be a payment vehicle when doing business with a stranger.
5. Know Your Protections.
It is rare that something goes wrong with a transaction, but if it does, eBay can help you take action. If your purchase isn't covered by PayPal Buyer Protection, then it is likely covered by the eBay Standard Protection Program which will cover you up to $200 (less a $25 service fee).
Posted by: trekpsycho
DO NOT use a debit card for this transaction without checking with your bank first! Even though it works like a credit card, that is no garantee that the rules are the same as a credit card. Some bank cards have fraud protection and some do not. Also, remember that this will connect directly to your bank account and is not be a good thing to give out to someone that you do not really know. Use a regular credit card or Paypal.
Paypal buyer protection
http://blackdiamondgraphics.systemo...rekpsychosm.jpg
Posted by: RBK25
i guess i am confused. i do use paypal to buy items off ebay, but when i registered for paypal, i put in all my debit/credit card information to register. So doesnt that mean i am using my debit card for the transaction through paypal? If yes/no what does it mean.
by the way, it is 10:25 pm where i am at and the buy it now time is down to 7hrs and 25min. dont think that my bank will be open at that time. i will try to check it out online.
thanks, that is very useful info at a time like this
Posted by: redwench
well, yes, the assumption was that he was going to use paypal or some other third party to process the card.
ebay's protection is worthless. paypal is only helpful if the seller qualifies for the protection, or keeps enough money in paypal to retrieve. if you dont know if your debit card offers fraud protection for purchases, take this opportunity to find out.
unless youre not saying whats in the auction, theres something the seller isnt telling you. "all these computers" means they have a bunch of them. presumably reconditioned. caveat emptor
Posted by: redwench
there are 4 ways to pay via paypal:
balance transfer
credit/debit card
bank transfer
echeck
if you dont know which of those is occuring, you really need to pay more attention.
Posted by: trekpsycho
I repeat: DO NOT use a debit card for this transaction without checking with your bank first! I found out the hard way that some banks have no fraud protection on the debit cards with the credit card logos. Even though you can use it like one, this is not a credit card! It connects directly to your bank account. You should not give that card number out online. A credit card company will hold the charge if you dispute it until the dispute is settled one way or the other. A bank will not do this. Usually, the only thing that a bank will do is to stop payment on the charge if you can catch it before it posts to your account. If not, you could lose your money. Another danger to giving this out online is that if someone steals it, they can empty your account before you know it. If a credit card number is stolen, you are not held liable for more than a certain amount (50.00 where I live).
http://blackdiamondgraphics.systemo...rekpsychosm.jpg
Posted by: RBK25
I am tryin to find out what all my debit card will cover if fraud does occur, and how it is being used for the payment(as mentioned above by redrench).
anyways, to keep you updated on the cobralaptop store and i's questions and answers.
You asked:
"i was wondering when my seven day warranty starts. When i have payed,when it is shipped, or when i recieve it? How long would you estimate it would take from the time a pay to the time i recieve it at zip code 50065? Why am i the only one being offered this low buy it now price, when there are hundreds of customers who would willingly purchase this item."
Hi ryan, Your seven day warranty starts the day that your item i sreceived (all deliveries must be signed for). We typically tell customers that they should receive their item within 7-10 business days (UPS Ground)also one paid for we perform another diagnostic on the machines before they are sealed up for shipment. According to our records you were the 2nd runner-up on the original auction, so you were made the 2nd chance offer based upon that. Don't worry, we never mind questions. Hope this all helps. thanks CobraCom
Posted by: redwench
 Quote:
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Originally Posted by trekpsycho
You should not give that card number out online.
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thats a bit much. its easier for someone to do malicious things with your card in person, than online.
Posted by: RBK25
which one of the following would you suggest that i pay through paypal with.
there are 4 ways to pay via paypal:
balance transfer
credit/debit card
bank transfer
echeck
Posted by: trekpsycho
Quote:
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Originally Posted by redwench
thats a bit much. its easier for someone to do malicious things with your card in person, than online.
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Call me paranoid, I guess. Hell, I won't even use my PIN number in Walmart cause I don't want anyone to see it!  Perhaps I should have said, "without fraud protection". Anyway, most websites only require name, address, card number and expiration date and that's it. At least in person there is a chance (although a small one) that the clerk will ask for ID. They will definetly ask for a signature, which would at least make it easier to prove that someone else used the card. The real problem is that if the bank doesn't have fraud protection, it will be very difficult to get the money reimbursed because those cards are not credit cards. They are just a link to your bank account. You can dispute a charge and you won't have to pay for it until the dispute is settled, but if someone empties your bank account, I garantee the bank won't put the money back in if they are not required to.
Anyway, it's a personal choice. All that I am saying is that before you use your debit card online, RB, make sure it has the fraud protection. If not, I would say that it would be safer to use a credit card to pay for the computer.
http://blackdiamondgraphics.systemo...rekpsychosm.jpg
Posted by: b4dd0g
I have been bidding on ebay now for the last 6 months and have have a few 2nd chance offers i think it is if the high bidder do,s not respond or pay or cancels there bid.a have got some stuff this why i am a sceptic too .what i would do if i were you (this is just me)
Thy say thy have a cupel (just make sure) if you don't buy it now thy will relist it and you get to have a nother go .If thy do in fact have more than 1 thy will most probly sell them on e-bay ...so let some one buy one 1st and then e-mail them an see if it is any good if so bid on the next one ( but make sure thy have more than 1 ) I would also see how many things thy have listed on e-bay if thy are a shop as he says thy souled have a big number of listings and would most likely be good ebayres if not well then ???????
Hope that helps.
b4dd0g
Posted by: RBK25
thanks a lot for your reply. as i read over and over his description page, i want this laptop even more. i asked for an extension on the buy it now offer so that i can find out a secure way to pay them. Depending on the reponse of the next set of questions i recieve, i will probably buy this item but take enough time before i pay him to find a secure way for his payment. unless ots strongly suggests that this is a bad move. i will call hp tomorrow and find out if the model is discontinued or what kind of support they still offer.
his store has 8 other laptops for sale, they all have a lot of bids on them so the other buyers are trusting them.
http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.d...e=DB:OtherItems
thier are also other ebay sellers selling the same model brand new. (there was i reason i mentioned that but i forgot. ha)
this seller does not offer the ebay buyer protection in the listing. (500 dollars refund if payed through paypal)
if i am wearing you guys out then you can be done with me. you have helped more than enough, but also still feel free to respond. i will keep you posted on any significant info.
thanks again and again and again. did i mention that i really want this laptop?
Posted by: RBK25
one thing that i just now noticed as i have been staring at the ad for hours is that the pictures of the laptop are very small. even when you can click the gallery image for a supposively bigger image, it is still small. there is also a 4 inch white strip running from top to bottom of the screen. i will try to post the image to see if you can make anything of it.
http://i11.ebayimg.com/01/i/02/85/3d/6f_1.JPG
http://i10.ebayimg.com/02/i/02/84/69/4e_1_b.JPG
hope it works
Posted by: RBK25
here are two more responses from my questions. now i think that they are actually legit.
response 1. Hi ryan, I understand your apprehension at buying such a large item without actually seeing it. yes, your address has to be confirmed before we ship out, this protects both of us. I understand about the money and yor position. This may be the time for you to just step back and maybe try to get one later on. We would love to sell one to you, however, auctions are not for everyone. You may want to go check out some of your local dealers and see if they may have something in your price range, plus you get the benefit of actually looking and touching it. I can't extend the 2nd chance offer (Ebay rules) unless I just relist it back into the system as either a new auction or as a "buy it now option" (by doing this if someone beats you to it, you will not get it). This model was marketed in most Walmart stores. You might want to check out them. We would love to have your business but I think this may not be the right avenue for you to purchase an item like this. Hope this helps. Dave
response 2. Hey Ryan, I'll have to check the laptop in reference to the white strip. I think it's just something that was on the same desk when picture was taken. I'll reply back. Again, I think you may be better suited in purchasing a laptop from one of your local vendors. Not trying to sound mean, but I want you to feel good about making the purchase. Thanks Dave
i am thinking that they are legit.
Posted by: redwench
i notice that the important question still hasnt been answered, namely: why do they have several or more identical used computers for sale with no defects. that really makes no sense, unless they were returned under warranty and reconditioned. and that they should be disclosing. and since its quite relevant to what they are selling, its a disturbing omission. why dont you check out the normal selling price of a reconditioned model online.
Posted by: Bunmiadefisayo
Quite frankly i do not approve of buying anything on Ebay. Being a student i guess that makes me more cautious than working people. However i would say be on teh cautious side like Redwench is. Why on earth, or better yet, how on earth can they possibly have 2 identical laptops with the same specs and all. It just seems too good to be true. Stick on the side of caution and shop around. WHo knows, you may find a safer deal than what they are offering.
Oh and if you are a college student DONT EVEN THINK ABOUT IT
Posted by: RBK25
Good news, i called my bank and they said if i make a purchase with my debit card and i never recieve the product then the money will be transfered back into my acccount from the company's, even with my debit card!!! i am so excited. i did by it last night so now i guess i can continue with the payment. My bank did mention that i should be careful while purchasing items with a debit card because it is a direct payment. they could take out more than the purchase price.(well, you know what i mean)
anyways, thanks for all your help. i will let you know how the laptop turns out.
Posted by: RBK25
thanks for your reply Bunmiadefisayo. How do you think it is not likely that a company can have two of the same model of laptops (which would have to contain the same specs). Maybe i am getting this confused but is this particular company, ideally wanting to build their company up as big as, for example, best buy? Best buy obvioudly has tons of models that are identical.
I also called hp and asked about the zv5227wm and they said that they are still offering product support/warranty, and are still selling that model. i guess that you can buy it through the walmart catalog or just walk right in and buy it. hp said that the list price for a brand new laptop of this model is only $1300-1500, depending on the location that you will buy it from. Learning this information helps me think that 900 dollars isnt to good to be true. i am curious to hear your feedback.
Posted by: redwench
no, lots of sellers might have identical models of new widgets. the point is, these are supposedly used and 5 months old. the only places i can think of that would be likely to have 5 month old used computers for sale would be service centers. best buy doesnt have 5 used zv5227wm in stock, although they might have 5 new ones.
as long as you have fraud protection on your card, and hp will still warranty them [dont forget, the original owners already filled out the warranty info, youll have to get that switched], you should be fine.
Posted by: RBK25
i have been waiting for my paypal address to be confirmed before i pay for my laptop. i decided to check my email and seen that i recieved one from them. Now they are trying to say that i need to use bidpay.com to pay for the laptop because paypal is getting to expensive.
I could not believe that they were doing this to me. i definetly dont want to use bidpay.com, which is western union, because there is no security. dont you agree?? i am now beginning to think that this is a scam again. i wrote ebay about this situation and i am just waiting for them to respond back.
Posted by: redwench
bidpay gives you more security than western union, but its by no means as secure as paypal.
however, you are under no obligation to complete the transaction if they indicated that paypal would be acceptable prior, and they no longer accept it.
Posted by: RBK25
good to hear from you redrench. emailed this company again with a little bit more attitude, but i was careful to burn any bridges. i recieved an email back from them, and they answered all my questions that i had asked, and also gave me a phone number. i immediately called them and he made these points (dont know a better way to show the conversation)
1. they had 3 laptop models like this. they buy from companies who upgrade and go out of business, and from pawn shops.
2. they changed from paypal to bidpay, because of the 2-3% fees that paypal is charging with each sale. his listings should now say bidpay only instead of paypal.
3.showed me that he was completely understandable about my hesitation and gave me till the middle of next week to make my mind up or not. either way he will not leave negative feedback.
4.told me that there are many great deals on ebay right now, so dont feel like i have to buy from him.
5. he said that i will be able to see other buyers feedback in a couple days because he has recently recieved payment.
i know it seems like i change my mind everytime i get feedback, but i can honestly say that i thought this through, some people would call it "beat it to death", and i think that i will go ahead and make this payment.
the only thing that stands in my way is bidpay not accepting mastercard, which is what my debit card is . hopefully it wont be to hard to change. i will obviously wait for your reply before i carry out any action.
thanks a lot. i think that ots will finally not have to listen to me anymore.(atleast about this subject)
Posted by: redwench
understand that when you use bidpay, you are purchasing a money order. you will have no fraud protection from your debit card, as your purchase was from western union. just like going to the post office and purchasing 900 or whatever dollars of money orders. bidpay is great for normal auction purchases, not a computer.
they are required to accept paypal if the auction listed it as a payment option, regardless of what current auctions say. i would insist upon it, as no one in their right mind would pay for a computer with money orders and forego the protection of a credit card, or at least paypal.
Posted by: RBK25
here are the three payment methods i found at
http://www.bidpay.com/HowItWorks.asp
Payment is Sent
BidPay offers payment to sellers in one of three methods:
Direct to Bank – If the seller is located in the U.S. and is registered to have payments sent directly to a U.S. checking account, the auction payment amount will be received in approximately 3 banking business days.
Money Order – The money order is sent by the method chosen by the buyer. First Class Mail®; normally takes 3-5 business days, however, it can take up to 10 business days. For faster options, the buyer may choose to send payment via Next Day (continental U.S. addresses only) or Second Day Air (U.S. addresses only).
Pounds Sterling Cheque – If the seller is in the U.K. and is registered to receive a cheque, the auction payment will be sent by First Class Mail. The seller will typically receive
would the first option give me my fraud protection with my debit card?
i am seeing feedback from a buyer under cobracombaseballs name, but the sale only ended 1 day ago. no way the buyer should provide feedback that quick.
Posted by: redwench
Quote:
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Originally Posted by RBK25
i am seeing feedback from a buyer under cobracombaseballs name, but the sale only ended 1 day ago. no way the buyer should provide feedback that quick.
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thats a whopping red flag right there, especially since its from an established user, who would never leave feedback before they got the stuff.
please treat bidpay as if you were buying a money order, ie you cannot recover the money through a chargeback.
the seller is running 1 and 3 day auctions on expensive electronics. this is not good. look at what established sellers do. they take paypal, they run 7 day auctions, offer or provide insurance, and take their own photographs. this seller is violating copyright law, if nothing else.
he is also lying, several of his current auctions are listed as accepting paypal.
now, does this mean that you wouldnt get a working laptop as described? of course not. but purchasing from this seller would be very risky indeed if you used any method besides paypal.
Posted by: trekpsycho
I think I would blow this deal off. Just too many questions for my peace of mind. There will always be another computer deal and 900 dollars is a lot of money to be taking chances with. Don't let eagerness to but a laptop lead you into a mistake here. Think long and hard about what red said, she has some very good points!
http://blackdiamondgraphics.systemo...rekpsychosm.jpg
Posted by: b4dd0g
Hi
Like i say wait if he has more than 1 laptop he will relist it and then see in a couple of days if any one ells has left feed back . And tell them (if you are still buying ) That thy must take Paypal .......If not don't buy if he leafs neg feed back so what put your $900 BACK IN YOUR POCKET AND SMILE ..there will be more laptops .......
Hope this helps
Posted by: RBK25
Knowing that i cannot recieve my money back if i pay through bidpay leaves me with no option but to let this, what could be, unbelievble deal, go. Should i persue this sellers listing,that gave me the paypal option as payment but changed to only excepted bidpay after i won this item, any farther?
i found this same model, currently bidded up to $1100, and is brand new. the seller has 100% feedback from mainly buyers, offers paypal, and requests ten or more positive feedback responses in your history.
Posted by: RBK25
While were on the subject, i thought i would through this humerous email i just revieved from an "interested" horse buyer.( i sell horses on dreamhorse.com by the way). Thls is hilarious.
"Thanks for the mail,well i have a reputable shipping company that handles all my shippment so they'll be the one to come for the pick up at your location.I'll instruct my client to issue you a check of the total amount of $6000 which you're to deduct the sum of $2800 and send the excess funds to the shipping company who will be coming for the pick up via Western Union money transfer,so if you're ok with this i'll want you to forward to me your Full Name,Contact Address,City,State,Postal Code and Your PhoneNumber(Cell Number) where the check will be mailed to.Am located in south india i just want to buy it for my daugther in new zaeland.Hope to read from you soon.
Regards........."
(Rbk speaking now). Out of curiousity, is there anyway to trace there eamil back to their actual location?
i want to right him an email of how i just moved to africa and ................. just to mess with him.
Posted by: redwench
check the headers, sometimes they do have an ip as an origin.
Posted by: redwench
well, if you would like the computer, yes by all means, pursue the paypal issue. i cannot imagine they will make many good sales if theyre only using bidpay.
Posted by: RBK25
i know that i said i wouldnt post about this issue anymore, but look at this deal that cobracombaseball is trying to give me. (by the way, i already bought a differnt laptop from a very trustable buyer) here is the message:
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Got your reply.......Evidently, you are a hard person to deal with. tell you what we will do. Next week we will check out your laptop (probably on tuesday - will be gone on Monday) we will then ship it out to you before you pay. I can't do any better than that in making this deal close. Then hopefully you will pay as promised. I'll give you 3 days from the time you receive the laptop to make payment (we will probably go back to PayPal).
I have never done it like this before, but in this instance, I'm just tired of all the questions. Please send me back your address (make sure it's your confirmed one) and signature will be required upon delivery.
Sound fair?
thanks
i dont know if this is a good thing or bad thing. As long as i still have the option to buy it or not when i recieve it, i think that i will give him my shipping address.
thanks
Posted by: steveb
For what it's worth I think you are getting sucked in to something that's going to be a lot of hassle. I would not get into it.
Here's what could go wrong :-
1) They send the laptop 'Cash on delivery' (or some-such) - you refuse to pay - the shipping co. takes it back - but then the seller contacts you to say it never arrived back ....
2) When it arrives it's broken (or missing some vital bits - like the battery) - you reject it - they say it was OK/complete when they shipped it & you must have broken it (and bill you for the repairs/parts).
It doesn't matter how honest they are, it's just a lot of potential hassle.
NB. I use eBay a lot and have only ever been ripped off once - not by a total crook but by a seller who lied about the goods (they said 'Dual CPU Server Motherboard tested & working' - when I got it, it was missing the 2nd CPU socket VRM. After a long email exchange it turned out they never had a second VRM (and the Mfg. had stopped making this board so VRM's were impossible to get)).
My rule is to bid a maximum equal to their 'buyer' feedback (i.e. if they have 500 positive feedbacks from Buyers, I would bid to 500).
Re: 'Second Chance offers' - I try to avoid them This is what could happen - the seller gets a 'friend' to bid up the price. The friend over-bids and ends up the 'winner'. So the friend drops out and you are asked to pay your max. bid.
Go have a look at the 'bid history' - does it show some-one putting in bids in small steps ? If so it's a good bet some-one was trying to push up the pice ... and if the 'winner' and 'seller' give each other positive feedback within a couple of days I would regard that as all the proof I need to report them both to eBay.
Posted by: redwench
good god no, refuse him. no seller in his/her right mind would do such a thing.
that response makes me say run the hell away from them as fast as possible.
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