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Real Id
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Posted by: TwiztidJuggalo
Well, ladies and gentlemen, the United States of America is now closer to a fascist nation than it ever has been. Yesterday the President signed an $82 BILLION military spending bill which had hidden at the end of it the REAL ID Act. For those who havn't heard about it, the REAL ID Act mandates and creates a Federal ID Card. It used to be that the states controlled Driver's Licenses and ID cards, but now it is Federally controlled. Doesn't sound so bad right? But wait, the REAL ID Act also requires that states, if they want to get federally funding for this program and if they want their citizens to be able to use any if not all government services (in other words, if a state does not implement this program, its citizens won't be able to use any government services) ,link together their records containing our names, physical descriptions, age, an ID number, and many more, and Dept. of Homeland Security can add more at its descretion. So when all the 50 states are linked together, there will be one very large database of names and personal information about everyone in the US. Sounds like a prison to me. When this Act is fully implemented in 2008 every American citizen will be a walking barcode. I guess this brings new meaning to the phrase "Liberty and justice for all." So now everyone write their Congressmen and/or women to praise them for looking out for us.
Have a nice day in Fascist America, I know I will...
-matt
Posted by: SKYHN
What I dont get is they wanna shut down more military bases to save $50 billion OVER 20 YEARS. Hmm...I wonder why we would need to save $50 billion? 
Posted by: IceBreaker
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Originally Posted by TwiztidJuggalo
Well, ladies and gentlemen, the United States of America is now closer to a communist nation than it ever has been.
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Have a nice day in Communist America, I know I will...
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"Communist"? What's communism got to do with this, pray tell?
Given the context and especially the administration you're dealing with, wouldn't 'FASCIST' be (far) more appropriate?
Unless perhaps the almighty FBI, in the wake of the 911 attacks, deemed the term somewhat pejorative, nay, seditious, and therefore under the auspices of the Patriot Act decided to "censor" it during the post-911 neo-corporatist era? http://forum.presence-pc.com/images/perso/kryten.gif
Posted by: Canis Lupus
*shrug* it's not like this was unexpected or anything... you should get used to it, there's more things like this coming up before the regime ends...
Posted by: 9:35
HOLY SHIT PUBLIC INFORMATION WILL BE PRINTED ON IDENTIFICATION CARDS
Can you think of any valuable government services you regularily take advantage of that doesn't take into account who you are?
Posted by: Bix VT
this isnt a huge departure for those of us with a military ID as our primary form of identification...
Posted by: 9:35
Oh god, I just grasped how horrible this actually is. I mean, the government having an idea of who it's citizens are... yeah man *** the govtn its just like prison!!!!!!!!
Posted by: redwench
heh, our driver's licenses here have been swipable for years. youre already in a hella large database already, unless you live in timbuktu.
Posted by: elhior_manwe
Please replace communism with facism and you might be on to something.
Posted by: 9:35
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Originally Posted by elhior_manwe
Please replace communism with facism and you might be on to something.
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do you seriously believe that the introduction of a national identification program will be the United States' major transition into becoming a facist regime?
Posted by: TotalRecall
You're already required to carry ID to fly in the US. A national ID won't make instances like this less common, that's for sure. The ID isn't what bothers me, it's what may now require you to have ID.
The RealID act and the way that several people seem to shrug it off without a second thought gives me a bad feeling. The way that it was passed before the US senate is a joke. Why isn't anyone talking about that?
Posted by: redwench
im far more worried about the abortion known as the patriot act than realid. aside from passports, which already have all info necessary, most states already comply with the readid act. ever been pulled over for speeding or some such? cop will take your license and swipe it on his laptop in the car and add in the plate number. about the only thing different about realid, is that the data will now be in a single database rather than 50 of them.
is anyone really under the illusion that the federal government cannot get the info on your driver's license or state id card now if they ask for it?
Posted by: IceBreaker
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Originally Posted by TotalRecall
The ID isn't what bothers me, it's what may now require you to have ID.
The RealID act and the way that several people seem to shrug it off without a second thought gives me a bad feeling. The way that it was passed before the US senate is a joke.
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Hehe...
http://news.com.com/National+ID+car...414.html?tag=nl
and the following excerpt - this coming from a Republican congressman himself:
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the legislation, called the Real ID Act, gives unfettered authority to the Department of Homeland Security to design state ID cards and driver's licenses. Among the possibilities: biometric information such as retinal scans, fingerprints, DNA data and RFID tracking technology.
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Aaahh... now this is where things gets VERY interesting... http://forum.presence-pc.com/images/perso/djezee.gif
Posted by: armystud0911
The sad truth of the matter is that the terrorists won't be hindered much by this, they will use the same illigal means to do the same illigal stuff they did before, the ones who are suffering the most are the law abiding citizens of the US.
Posted by: elhior_manwe
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Originally Posted by 9:35
do you seriously believe that the introduction of a national identification program will be the United States' major transition into becoming a facist regime?
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First I refering to the original subject and the fact that comunism would not be a correct comparison, and yes I do thinkk we are moving towards a facist state this along with hundreds of other things going on in this country we are moving farther and farther away form any semblance of a democratic society.
Concerning the ID card, as it is right now no one is required to have any identification. Yes you need one to fly, drive, cash checks, get most jobs, etc....But I dont have to have one. A popular urban legend is that the law requires you to carry one but this is false. If I am suspected of doing something illegal then the police can detain me and then they can hold me untill the find out who I am and if I actually commited a crime other then that you do not need to have any sort of identification. Yes this is a very small and incosequential step but along side everything else going on these days I would have to say these small steps are moving to the right.
Posted by: 9:35
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Originally Posted by elhior_manwe
First I refering to the original subject and the fact that comunism would not be a correct comparison, and yes I do thinkk we are moving towards a facist state this along with hundreds of other things going on in this country we are moving farther and farther away form any semblance of a democratic society.
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please go ahead and tell me a few of your favorite 'democratic inhibiting things' that have limited your progress in being an active, non-facist-regime participating citizen
Posted by: BooRadley
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Originally Posted by SKYHN
What I dont get is they wanna shut down more military bases to save $50 billion OVER 20 YEARS.
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$50 billion over 20 years, and they could have saved $300 billion over 2 years by just not invading Iraq. The mismanagement is mindblowing.
Posted by: Bishop
that statement with your current avatar makes a mockery of us all.
Posted by: Oldcrocd
So what makes you in the US feel alone, we will biometric passports by end of 2005, ID cards by 2006 with all the relevant information posted above.
This has nothing to do with terrorism at all. They can continue to by the same equipment and make their own whenever they want. This is just another excuse given by governments for the ABSOLUTE CONTROL OF ITS CITIZENS. In the UK they are even talking about a tracking device implanted within ID card!!
PS I have just renewed my passport and notice that hologram across the photo can be used in computer for facial measurements
Posted by: IceBreaker
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Originally Posted by Oldcrocd
This is just another excuse given by governments for the ABSOLUTE CONTROL OF ITS CITIZENS. In the UK they are even talking about a tracking device implanted within ID card!!
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hehe - first disarmed, then tracked. Better watch out - at this rate, all you guys need is a confinement wall surrounding the island and lo! the world's first authentic giant prison since 1989...
Takes the definition of 'state-penitentiary' to a whole new meaning http://forum.presence-pc.com/images/perso/kryten.gif
Posted by: marioze53
Gotta love OTS... All yall making Margaret Atwood and Aldeus Huxley look optimistic...
Posted by: Oldcrocd
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Originally Posted by IceBreaker
hehe - first disarmed, then tracked. Better watch out - at this rate, all you guys need is a confinement wall surrounding the island and lo! the world's first authentic giant prison since 1989...
Takes the definition of ' state-penitentiary' to a whole new meaning http://forum.presence-pc.com/images/perso/kryten.gif |
Nah, have you tried entering the US with a passport issued by anyone other than US lately. The penitentiary is across the water, to keep them in!!
It has certainly stopped a lot of friends and colleagues visiting the US, and I mean around 30 to 35 people. Due entirely to the attitude of the immigration staff at airports, not because of the security, that they agree with, but the attitude of the staff is appalling , and thats putting it mildly.
Posted by: IceBreaker
oldcroc> not being a masochist, for the moment I have absolutely no reason to want to enter the US :|
This could have changed in november 2004, however such was not the case ; )
Posted by: IceBreaker
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Originally Posted by marioze53
Gotta love OTS... All yall making Margaret Atwood and Aldeus Huxley look optimistic...
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I'll put it down to SW-III - it's George Lucas' fault.
So sad, the movie http://forum.presence-pc.com/images...sisicaivrai.gif
Posted by: Null Actor
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Originally Posted by 9:35
Oh god, I just grasped how horrible this actually is. I mean, the government having an idea of who it's citizens are... yeah man *** the govtn its just like prison!!!!!!!!
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You know, that's just the kind of rhetoric that right-wingers love to use. The problems with Real ID isn't the idea of an ID itself, but the fact that all your personal info that would be stored on it would be extremely accessible to people who shouldn't have it. There are a few examples on this page (specifically points 2, 4, and 5) that effectively convey some of the very real problems with it, even if the site itself is a little over the top (1 is extremly unlikely, and 3 is a scare tactic. If you pay taxes the government already has most of your information).
Posted by: 9:35
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Originally Posted by Null Actor
You know, that's just the kind of rhetoric that right-wingers love to use. The problems with Real ID isn't the idea of an ID itself, but the fact that all your personal info that would be stored on it would be extremely accessible to people who shouldn't have it. There are a few examples on this page (specifically points 2, 4, and 5) that effectively convey some of the very real problems with it, even if the site itself is a little over the top (1 is extremly unlikely, and 3 is a scare tactic. If you pay taxes the government already has most of your information). |
Once upon a time, a driver's license was a license to drive a motor vehicle. Turning driver's licenses into national identity cards will actually make our roads more dangerous: by barring illegal immigrants from getting a driver's license, Real ID means more illegal immigrants will now drive without any training or certification. Your insurance company is certain to be understanding.
hahahahahahaha what
man dont you get it, THE GOVERNMENT is gonna install all these metal detecter things everywhere, like in stores and shit, except they dont detect metal they detect your fukken REALID's homo-ing tracking device so THE GOVERNMENT knows where you are at all times! and if you enter a gas station without your REALID then the arabian man says "i must say you cannot enter my store without identification!" because that way, if someone goes in the store and steals something, when they try to leave the REALID metal detector, it like, it fukken weighs you when you leave and if you weigh more than when you entered it knows you stole something! facists! but it would be smart because if you bought something, the product's digital information like weight and shape would be imprinted on the REALID when it gets swiped in the register, you know, because the government wants to track everything you buy! so when you leave the store and get weighed on the way out, the REALID relays your new weight and great job you didn't steal anything!
the only problem i can see is if you take a shit in the store, you know, in the toilet or not i guess its up to how much you want to rage against the machine at this point, and you leave the store without buying something so you register as weighing less than when you did entering the store. Maybe thsi can be fixed when THE GOVERNMENT installs REALID toilet bowl card swipers, because you know bush wants to track your bowel movements too fukken govt
dude, we're in the middle of an information age. databases like lexisnexis, online or not, track so much public information and sell it for huge profits to private interests. when they get hacked, like lexis most recently did, it should be crystal clear to everyone just how much information is available to anyone with a few dollars. social security numbers, housing history, job history, anything that could possibly be in the public light, its all there. to think that most first world governments don't have equal or better databases already is completely ignorant. and i'm openly embracing it because i'm kinda enjoying this spiraling descent into hell
Posted by: Null Actor
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Originally Posted by 9:35
dude, we're in the middle of an information age. databases like lexisnexis, online or not, track so much public information and sell it for huge profits to private interests. when they get hacked, like lexis most recently did, it should be crystal clear to everyone just how much information is available to anyone with a few dollars. social security numbers, housing history, job history, anything that could possibly be in the public light, its all there. to think that most first world governments don't have equal or better databases already is completely ignorant. and i'm openly embracing it because i'm kinda enjoying this spiraling descent into hell
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Hey, I already said that the database thing wasn't applicable.
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