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Katrina....avoid?
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Posted by: TwiztidJuggalo
OK this pissed me off to no end. I was watching my local news channel and they were doing reports from areas where people have gathered in New Orleans. There are a lot of idiots down there. They are complaining that the government is taking its time to rescue them. It is their own fault they even need to be rescued in the first place. EVERYONE has known about Katrina for at least a week. The mandatory evacuation was put into effect about 18 hours before she hit. Now you got all these people who have some excuse as to why they didn't leave and they are blaming the government that they have to scrounge for food and take a shit in the corner on top of the other shit that is piled up. Yea this is a tragedy. But COME ON, those people had a crapload of time to get out, they could have even walked out of the city with the amount of time of warning they had. Hell I don't know, I guess it just gets to me when people are idiots and they blame the government, the RESCUERS, for their plight. If these people want to get rescued then why the hell was there a GUN FIRED AT A RESCUE HELICOPTER? That happens and they bitch and whine that they are not getting rescued. As for the idiot looters...they should be shot on sight. Worthless pieces of garbage they are.
I guess my point is for these people to stop blaming someone else for their own idiocy (spelled right?) and take responsibility for themselves. THEY chose to stay, so THEY should take care of themselves.
Anyways my rant is over.
-matt
EDIT: Well I read something else that pissed me off. I read about 17 contractors who were on their way to HELP REPAIR A CANAL and were shot at by a bunch of morons. Luckily the contractors were under police escort and the escorts shot and killed 5 or 6 of the gunmen. What pisses me off is that people who are trying to help the morons, people who have the strength to deal with the horrible imagery and people who have the courageousness (word?) to travel down there, are getting SHOT AT! I just do not understand people sometimes.
OK now my rant is really over...unless I read or see something else that just pisses me off then I will bitch some more, but until then....
Posted by: redwench
yup, new orleans was under mandatory evacuation well ahead of the storm. anyone that didnt leave or provide their own contingency plans has no one to blame but themselves for their current situation.
Posted by: IceBreaker
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Originally Posted by TwiztidJuggalo
OK this pissed me off to no end. I was watching my local news channel and they were doing reports from areas where people have gathered in New Orleans. There are a lot of idiots down there. They are complaining that the government is taking its time to rescue them. It is their own fault they even need to be rescued in the first place. EVERYONE has known about Katrina for at least a week.
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Me too - I just don't understand - especially those whose abodes & belongings where uninsured & who could not afford to forsake their homes. Some of them were actually unwilling to leave - what a bunch of idiots!
Posted by: redwench
what on earth would insurance have to do with complying with a mandatory evacuation order? there isnt jack shit you can do to prevent your home from being damaged/destroyed by a hurricane by being there when it hits. you might lose your life along with it, which apparently doesnt occur to said idiots.
of course, as a libertarian, i firmly believe these idiots have the right to stay in their homes if they wish. but not to then blame the government or aid agencies for the result of their decision. your right to be an idiot is enshrined in the constitution, not the right to blame others for it 
Posted by: IceBreaker
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Originally Posted by redwench
your right to be an idiot is enshrined in the constitution, not the right to blame others for it |
Freedom of Speech™? http://forum.presence-pc.com/images/perso/matleflou.gif
Posted by: TwiztidJuggalo
I read on AOL news today that a man who raped and slit a young girl's throat was was beat to death by the crowd. I am glad to see some true justice down there. This is what should happen to the wrongdoers, looters, and all the scum mingling around.
This happened at the arena. I know there are killings, rapings, and the like going on down there, I just felt like posting this because amid all the bad news, some good news (the death of the raper) pokes its head up out of the smoke.
-matt
Posted by: DemonBob
Well i live in Louisiana, just north of New Orleans on the Northshore. (Hammond). And I tottally agree, these people had more then enough time to evacuate, not to mention for the last 50-60 years every official has said that if a cat 4-5 ever hit N.O. directly, or indirectly this would happen, they knew that the levee's would not hold. Told everyone, years before hand, now the ones that are stuck behind are pissed because of thier own fualts and ignorance.
Posted by: Zakir
I completely agree that people should have left, but that still isn't an excuse for the government not acting on the situation as they should have. Many more lives could have been saved if the government had been more efficient, especially for those who were not able to leave the area.
Posted by: TwiztidJuggalo
I do hope you mean the state and local governments, not the federal government. The main reason there were so many "victims" in NOLA is because the state and local governments were incompetent. The city of New Orleans had around 2000 buses available to use and did not use them. The governor declared a state of emergency days before Katrina hit, but for some unknown reason mandated the mandatory evactuation only a day and a half before she hit. Also, did you know that when everyone was at the superdome and all that mess was happening, the mayor of the city and some other people were at a Hilton across the street? The mayor could have helped calm everything down at least a little by providing known leadership ad saying to the people "Hey! Don't be like this! You are human beings not animals!" (or something of the like). Instead, when buses came to pick people up, the mayor had people who were staying in the Hilton (shelter, food, water, privacy) put at the front of the line to leave.
Bush is not to blame for this tragedy. Bush was advised to call the governor of LA and tell her to get on the ball basically, and offered federal help immediately. The governor said "I'll think about it." So while she was thinking about it people were dying. Finally the federal aid was wanted and given and the Guard came to the rescue. So don't blame Bush or the Federal government, blame the incompetency of the state and local governments.
-matt
Posted by: IceBreaker
Are you implying that even in a state of emergency the almighty Central Power could not have intervened on their own volition & without local approval, if they'd actually wanted to?
How came it then, that senators from various states - both Democrat & Republican - called for an investigation into what they deemed an "immense failure" on behalf of the Bush administration for its handling of the disaster?
Posted by: redwench
mainly because of the pr situation. until the governor asks for help, the federal government cant do anything. the senators know that, but many citizens, especially the poor, dont realize it. therefore, it looks good to call for an investigation that is pointless.
Posted by: IceBreaker
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Originally Posted by redwench
until the governor asks for help, the federal government cant do anything.
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If that were the case, wouldn't Washington be harping on it as their most effective defense? After all, if they were prevented BY LAW from reacting to the disaster, then there was nothing they could have done about it, had they wanted to - case dismissed, guilt dispatched - right?
But if so, wouldn't the senators' requests for an investigation have been denied outright?
Posted by: TwiztidJuggalo
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Originally Posted by IceBreaker
But if so, wouldn't the senators' requests for an investigation have been denied outright?
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No because everyone looked to the president even though this mess was not his doing, everyone looked to him, so if he denied it, and everyone belived he should NOT have done so, then he would be scorned by everyone. So he made the people happy by giving an investigation.
-matt
Posted by: TwiztidJuggalo
O yea, as for the people camping out in an abandoned building firing at helicopters and workers trying to repair what they can, the building they are in should be blown up. Just fire a damn missle, problem solved. Half of NOLA is going to have to be demoslished anyway. And blowing that building up with them unknowing inside is a great idea.
-matt
Posted by: IceBreaker
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Originally Posted by TwiztidJuggalo
No because everyone looked to the president even though this mess was not his doing, everyone looked to him, so if he denied it, and everyone belived he should NOT have done so, then he would be scorned by everyone. So he made the people happy by giving an investigation.
-matt
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OK... so the President earnestly wanted to help but was powerless to do so
Then he allowed an investigation whilst knowing it would be futile & that he would come out of it unscathed (I might believe this part, though)
Oh and as for all these senators, democrats & republicans alike, who blamed Washington...I guess they just don't what they are talking about eh?
Posted by: IceBreaker
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Originally Posted by TwiztidJuggalo
O yea, as for the people camping out in an abandoned building firing at helicopters and workers trying to repair what they can, the building they are in should be blown up.
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Yes, surely - but while we're at it:
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Originally Posted by TwiztidJuggalo
I read on AOL news today that a man who raped and slit a young girl's throat was was beat to death by the crowd. I am glad to see some true justice down there. This is what should happen to the wrongdoers, looters, and all the scum mingling around.
This happened at the arena. I know there are killings, rapings, and the like going on down there, I just felt like posting this because amid all the bad news, some good news (the death of the raper) pokes its head up out of the smoke.
-matt
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I read on many newspapers that a man declared an illegal war on a country under the preten$e of fighting terrorism & promoting freedom™, only to have in the end turned this country into an international hub of terrorism - at the expense of over 25000 civilian deaths, a third of which he was directly responsible. This man was NOT beat to death by the crowd. I am sad not to see any justice down there, for even this is nothing next to what should happen to wrongdoers, fascists & all the corporate scum mingling around.
This happened far away in the East. I know there are killings, bombings & the like going on down there, I just felt like posting this because amid all the bad news, some far worse news (the impunity of a war criminal) pokes its ugly head up out of the smoke!
Posted by: TwiztidJuggalo
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Originally Posted by IceBreaker
I've reading on many newspapers ever since 2 years ago that a man declared an illegal war on a country under the preten$e of fighting terrorism & promoting freedom™, only to have in the end turned this country into an international hub of terrorism - at the expense of over 25000 civilian deaths, a third of which he was directly responsible. This man was not beat to death by the crowd. I am sad not to see any justice down there, for this is what should happen to wrongdoers, fascists & all the corporate scum mingling around.
This happened far away in the East. I know there are killing, bombings & the like going on down there, I just felt like posting this because amid all the bad news, some far worse news (the impunity of a war criminal) pokes its ugly head up out of the smoke! |
Illegal war? Hmmm that is strange, because in most situations the prez has to go through Congress to delcare war, Congress being the body that makes our laws and knows the inner workings of them. And in this case Congress, with the same info that Bush had, allowed Bush to declare war.
As for the civilian casualties, we all know that they are a part of war, they are unavoidable.
The French suffered 20,000+ innocent civilian casualties on d-day and through the following few weeks.
-matt
EDIT: Also, how is the country an "international hub of terrorism"?
Posted by: Zakir
No, FEMA and our new, and great, department, of homeland security, to which FEMA belongs, did not act as quickly or as efficiently as it should have, as well.
Posted by: redwench
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Originally Posted by IceBreaker
Oh and as for all these senators, democrats & republicans alike, who blamed Washington...I guess they just don't what they are talking about eh?
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you dont understand. the investigation calls are pr. the voters (you know, the people that can sack their fat asses) are calling for an investigation. therefore, an investigation there shall be. republicans (and democrats, of course) know full well what the investigation will turn up, which is nada. its no different than the support for the war on iraq. when voters were howling for blood, very few senators said anything publicly against it. when the voters changed their mind after a year or so, guess what. so did the senators. there are some elected representatives that have the balls to disagree with the public, but not many.
Posted by: IceBreaker
Damn...a pity...judging from the water pollution in N.O they're talking about in the news I was hoping Bush would have a hard time washing his hands off the case ( )
Once again, apparently not...
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Originally Posted by TwiztidJuggalo
Illegal war? Hmmm that is strange, because in most situations the prez has to go through Congress to delcare war, Congress being the body that makes our laws and knows the inner workings of them. And in this case Congress, with the same info that Bush had, allowed Bush to declare war.
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yes, all the more so than Congress was made up in majority of Republicans, ie. same side as Bush - in other words in allowing the Oil War, Congress was consistent with their own beliefs - how surprising!
Oh, and that's not what I meant by 'illegal' - notice how you forgot to mention the UN ......
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Originally Posted by TwiztidJuggalo
As for the civilian casualties, we all know that they are a part of war, they are unavoidable.
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So 'unavoidable' means 'acceptable' just because the 'war' tag is attached to the course of action that results in these casualties?
Branding it a war changes murder into something of a heroic combat for freedom?
Or a conquest, perhaps?
Victims become necessary sacrifices for a greater cau$e?
Especially in this case, when said war had no reason to be in the 1st place?
Casuaties are regrettable but, Oil's Well that ends well eh?
Haha, I can imagine the discussion - something along the lines of this:
Junior> let's rain bombs & invade Iraq – we need their oil. Civilians are expendable.
advisor> Mr President, this is akin to mass murder!
Junior> no problem – let's call it a war
advisor> but of course! That changes everything (…)
You know, this reminds me of a quote I came across aeons ago - from Hobbes, I believe:
"When violence is committed by the individual, it is called a crime. When committed by the State, it is called the Law" [no matter how morally illegitimate said violence is]
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Originally Posted by TwiztidJuggalo
The French suffered 20,000+ innocent civilian casualties on d-day and through the following few weeks.
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Riiight – so basically you're comparing the incomparable…
- on one hand, an intervention that was planned after the enemy itself – the Axis - began the hostilities, and aimed at liberating a territory from a foreign occupying force, following which the Axis was successfully driven out & the GIs hailed as heroes by the local population upon their arrival in Paris
- on the other, a unilateral & unprovoked attack on a country, carried out despite UN dissent & under false pretences that have still to be resolved ( ) and following which the GIs were & still are decried as an occupying force by the local population. Not quite the same picture eh?
Oh and concerning the 'unprovoked' part, yes there was 9/11 – whose REAL culprits are still on the loose, by the way -)
Say if it's all about bringing up completely unrelated "analogies", why even speak of War at all? I mean, consider the Tsunami in Asia a few months ago – several thousands of dead…but it was unavoidable – just like the Iraqi casualties!
=> Flash news: these victims were avoidable – because this whole freaking war was avoidable
If that killer you spoke of deserved to be beaten to death by a crowd, then what does a mass-murderer like your ayatollah, I mean leader, deserve?
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Originally Posted by TwiztidJuggalo
EDIT: Also, how is the country an "international hub of terrorism"?
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hehe - the question seems almost earnest…
Come now – unless one's been living cut off from the rest of the world without reading/watching the news even once over the last 2 years, it shouldn't be too hard to figure out that the Oil War has only compounded the problem it was allegedly meant to solve (that's terrorism :-)
It ended up bolstering the very enemy it was supposed to defeat & set off a cascade of events leading to nothing short of a de facto civil war in Iraq that is on its way to making the Lebanon situation in the 80s pale in comparison - disparate terrorist groups are now having a whale of a time recruiting volunteers – both at home…and ABROAD (Saudi Arabia, Kowait, Pakistan to name a few – and that's just considering the Middle-East) – suicide bombers…shitloads of them…swarming into Iraq from all sides like a cockroach infestation…
BTW how successful has the Coalition been so far in trying to stem the flow?
Thanks to the Oil War, terrorism has become the new scourge of Iraq – something never seen since the heydays of the hachichins, 7 centuries ago.
A day without some Allah nut blowing himself up somewhere in Iraq, just a day of respite, that has become something of a luxury for the citizens…
Last year if I'm not mistaken U.S. forces beefed up their ressources in the hunt for Ben Laden, in the infamous "no man's land" between Afghanistan & Pakistan, but courtesy of the Oil War, GLOBAL terrorism is better primed than ever to carry on with its work should even Ben Laden & all his acolytes be disposed of. In fact according to the IISS (International Institute of Strategic Studies, UK), even with a number of Al Qaeda big shots either dead or captured, worldwide recruiting for the anti-US jihad has been on the rise, and thriving…ever since after the War – with terrorist groups springing up like mushrooms in its wake. These groups are said to be smaller, de-centralized & thus much harder to locate & neutralize.
Hope this makes you feel safer http://forum.presence-pc.com/images/perso/kryten.gif
Here's some reading, for your convenience:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlate...5258346,00.html
http://www.newamerica.net/index.cfm...icle&DocID=1897
Enjoy :|
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