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Possibly Building Another Machine
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Posted by: FadedMaster
It's been a little while since I've build a new machine, and it's getting to that point where games just aren't working the way I want them to.
I'm wanting to build a nice machine that I can upgrade later easily. As always of course. I'm looking to dump a good portion of money in the board and processor. And then as I need to upgrade the video card and ram.
I have a $2000 limit, but would like to stay within reason of course.
I'm already going to get an 80GB Raptor drive, maybe two, for about $150 each.
Basically, what are your recommendations for a very nice mobo and processor? Oh and a nice PSU to go with them?
EDIT: It's actually a 150GB Raptor. For $157.
Posted by: P0nix
if its gaming you're interested in, try two DX10 cards in SLI or Crossfire. I'm happy gaming with dual core but for the most part, single core processors are better gaming machines. I'm sure Goranpaa can elaborate.
Posted by: goranpaa
Hi! Lol.
This, should make a good pc.
Case: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...N82E16811119104
Additional exhaust fan for the case above:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...N82E16811999346
Psu: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...N82E16817703005
This is the "Rolls Royce" of psu brands. With 610W and 49A on the +12V rail. You can run any top videocard and other mega demanding hardware on it. Only small gripe is, that it is'nt modular.
If I wanted a top modular psu. Then, this would certainly be my choise. Got great reviews, even by SPCR. And if those guys gives a hardware a nod, it's really good. Close to PC P & C in quality, according to the reviews I have read.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...N82E16817139002
Mobo: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...N82E16813131028
Cpu: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...N82E16819115003
Cpu cooler: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...N82E16835186134
RAM: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...N82E16820145590
Maybe 2 such kits?
Videocard: I would'nt for the world recommend the 8800 cards. I have been over at different forums. And people have loads of serious problems with those cards.
They are returning them by the wagon loads.
I guess I whas among the very lucky guys, who got a card that works well with XP at least. The Vista drivers for this cards, is at the best mediocre for the moment.
But I seriously doubt I would have bought it. If I did'nt got such a nice price for it. And also managed to sell the X1900GT for a good price too.
If I where you. I would get a Radeon X1950Pro or GF 7900GS or a 7950GT.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...N82E16814131027
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...N82E16814145142
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...N82E16814130074
Any of the cards above will keep you going in style.
Then in the autumn, get a 8900 when theire out. Or one of the upcoming DX10 Radeons.
Remember, that the 8800 is the first generation of DX10 cards.
But IF you still wanna go down that road? Get a 640mb 8800GTS. The 320mb will have a memory performance penalty at high resoloutions / quality settings.
DVD combo:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...N82E16827136108
Total of 1189 bucks with a EVGA 7950GT and 2 gig of Corsair XMS.
Total of 1358 USD with 4 gig of that Corsair XMS 2 RAM.
Edit.
A couple of other cases that is good:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...N82E16811129018
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...N82E16811129154
Intake 92mm fan for the Solo case:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...N82E16811999347
Great silent 120mm fan for the P180 case:
http://www.endpcnoise.com/cgi-bin/e...s_120mm_bw.html
You probably wanna swap the 3 X 120mm Antec Tricool fans that comes with the P180 case.
With that Corsair psu, You wont need the 120mm fan in the lower hd / psu tunnel. Just seal the case vents around the psu. And mount the psu flipped upside down. I.e psu fan up.
It will give a sufficent amount of air flow, to draw in air over the hdds and out via the ps.
Posted by: FadedMaster
For the CPU... I've heard that I'd be better of just getting the 6300 and OC'ing it. I've been outta the loop a bit since the dual-cores and quad-cores came out. So I'm not completely up on it all.
Posted by: goranpaa
Yeah, that would also be a way. But it will be easier to oc a 6400 to the E6600 speeds and beyond.
A E6600, beats the AMD FX 62.
Posted by: FadedMaster
I went with the E6600 anyways. I figured screw it. I didn't wanna mess with OC'ing yet.
I was just wondering now if I should install my 64-bit or 32-bit version of Windows XP?
EDIT: Or should I do a dual-boot? I'd hate to do a dual-boot between two Windows installs. How much support for gaming is there in the 64-bit version of Windows? 'Cause for right now, I don't mind suffering a little performance for support and such.
I mean, I know I can install either version... I was just wondering if it's really worth it yet to go with the 64-bit version...
Posted by: P0nix
how about both
Posted by: goranpaa
 Quote:
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Originally Posted by FadedMaster
I went with the E6600 anyways. I figured screw it. I didn't wanna mess with OC'ing yet.
I was just wondering now if I should install my 64-bit or 32-bit version of Windows XP?
EDIT: Or should I do a dual-boot? I'd hate to do a dual-boot between two Windows installs. How much support for gaming is there in the 64-bit version of Windows? 'Cause for right now, I don't mind suffering a little performance for support and such.
I mean, I know I can install either version... I was just wondering if it's really worth it yet to go with the 64-bit version...
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That's a great cpu! Good choise!
The 32 bit Vista is pretty o.k. The 64 bit is suffering from pretty low and bad driver and software support.
Posted by: FadedMaster
Oh there's no way I'm doing Vista. Haha. I have a license for both the 32 and 64 bit versions of XP though.
Vista all together is lacking for drivers and such.
I went with the GeForce 7950GT and the Coolermaster Case. Just 2GB of RAM for now though. Maybe the extra 2GB at the end of summer.
I have the 150GB Raptor sitting next to me.... can't wait for the parts to arrive and start putting this thing together. Haha.
Posted by: goranpaa
Sorry, I missed the fact you where talking about XP.
I guess you eagerly will await those boxes lol.
You must tell us what you think about the new rig when you have put it together. I'm very curious!
Posted by: FadedMaster
Oh definitely. First two games I'm going to play are going to be FEAR and Oblivion. 
Hm, I still wonder about the 64-bit version of XP. Anyone have experience with it and gaming?
PS: goranpaa... you've been an amazing help.
Posted by: goranpaa
Don't forget Far Cry too when testing the rig, if you have it?
You're welcome. Helping people putting together rigs is great fun. It's almost as I whas upgrading my own rig lol.
Me too are going Conroe pretty soon. I think I settle for a E6400, the same mobo as your soon to be, and the same RAM.
The Corsair XMS DDR I got have worked very well. Never missed a beat. So I stick to Corsair.
I have read a lot about such Conroe rigs. And know they are pretty amazing stuff. But it's always good to hear how such a rig are, from someone you know.
Posted by: FadedMaster
Well, got the parts.
I think the mobo is shot though. The WiFi, neither lan ports, none of the USB, and the sound don't work. And before you ask, yes I installed the drivers with the disk that came with the mobo. And it's not so much as detecting them. And of course I checked to make sure that they're enabled in the bios.
EDIT: Okay, now it appears that it's random. Sometimes all the USB and the LAN work, and sometimes they don't. But nothing from the sound. I was planning on picking up an independent soundcard anyways. But still, if something is wrong with this motherboard I wanna find out (Oh and it appears one of the LAN ports and the WiFi still aren't detected either).
Posted by: goranpaa
Hi!
What a bad luck! I feel sorry for you! But that could eventually be a bad bios. Try flashing a new one.
Othervice its "return to sender time".
Posted by: pdnielsen
To answer your question about the 64 bit edition of Windows XP Pro, it works very well for gaming. Since it's a 64 bit OS it also recognizes and supports more memory than the 32 bit version. The 32 bit versions of Windows support up to 3 gigabytes. I'm not sure what the limit of the memory P X64 supports is though. I know the 64 bit version of Vista supports up to 128 gigabytes of memory even though you can't find a mobo that takes more than 32 gigabyte right now.
You'll have to test the various games to see if they all work with X64 though. So far I've had no troubles even with games from 1998 or so.
Posted by: FadedMaster
I think if I'm messing with any older games I'll play them on my old computer.
I tried flashing the BIOS but that didn't work either. So I've sent it back in. I love NewEgg's RMA service. Second time I've had to use it. I don't mind paying the shipping to send it back just as long as I get the new one back without having to pay for that shipping.
Looks like I'll hafta wait a while before I get the full effect, but from what I did play with... any game (Oblivion, Far Cry, Doom 3, FEAR, etc) was able to play at full settings with no lag at all.  I love it. I was also installing 3 games at once without it slowing down.
Pretty sweet stuff. I can't wait until I get the mobo back though. Until then I'm on my older machine, which isn't too bad anyways. :-P
Posted by: goranpaa
O.k.
Yeah. the 7950GT do have some pretty big muscles lol.
How did you like the image quality?
You did get that Coolermaster Centurion 534 case did you? How does it look in reality?
Posted by: FadedMaster
Very sleek and very quiet case. I was quite impressed. The airflow is alright. That tunnel does it's job. Just need to fix the front of it for an intake fan that blows across the hard drives. But plenty of room to do my thing in there and even room to zip-tie the cables down. I just wish it came with an intake fan, which is no problem. That and a window panel would be cool. The LED lights on the front aren't overwhelimingly bright either (like on my other tower). So they didn't disturb me with the lights in my room out. Oh and the latches for the PCI slots are the best that I've encountered. Didn't cut my hand once whiel workin' on the case either.
The PSU was really nice too. I love the modular design. Came with plenty of small zip-ties too. Very quiet PSU as well, and the fan on it helped too. (Went with the Corsair of course).
THe image quality in games was pretty amazing. Oblivion looked astounding as did FEAR. Far Cry wasn't too bad, I mostly liked the scenery. And the water in Far Cry looked orgasmic.
Posted by: goranpaa
Niiiice!
So then I can continue to recommend the case then? lol. It must be of an amazingly good quality, for beeing such a low priced case.
I belive the Aerocool 120mm Turbine (37 cfm) would make a great and silent intake fan. You can remove that pointy "nose" on that fan.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...N82E16835129243
That Corsair psu is great! You can run 8800GTX DX 10 card on it, without breaking even a minor sweat.
Yeah the 7950GT is an impressing card. Did you enable the HDR lighting for Far Cry?
Posted by: FadedMaster
Quote:
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Originally Posted by goranpaa
Yeah the 7950GT is an impressing card. Did you enable the HDR lighting for Far Cry?
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You bet I did.
I discovered today that I have about $1000 more in my checking than I thought (and that's with this most recent purchase on it). So I'm going to go ahead and order the extra 2GB of RAM, and that fan. Plus get a DVD/CD burner on my employee discount at BBY. I might also check out what we have for fans at BBY (I doubt anything high end, but worth a look).
Other than that I can't think of anything else I might need unless someone has a suggestion. I already have Arctic Silver thermal compound of course. I'm debating that other heatsink & fan combo for the processor, but from what I could read on the mobo, I was getting good temps with the stock.
Posted by: goranpaa
O.k. I think you should wait with the Freezer 7 Pro cpu cooler til you see what temps you get in the summer? But I guess you will manage with the stock cooler anyway, as the Core 2 Duo cpu's runs very cool. But besides that, it's just a question if you feel you need something more silent than the stock cooler?
I cant think of anything you might need besides the stuff you already meansioned anyway.
When checking BBY for fans?
Look for fans, like: Acousti fan, Akasa Amber series fans, Evercool, Globalwin, Nexus, Noctua (1200 RPM version) Panaflo mid speed version, Papst, Silverstone, low rpm version, Scythe S-Flex mid rpm, Yate Loon. Those are all good and very silent fans.
Othervice, Get that Aerocool Turbine fan.
Posted by: FadedMaster
Thanks. Actually this new build is much much quieter than my old one. Haha. The old one is pretty noisy and it doesn't bother me.
I always need some sort of a humming sound anyways. But I'll check out those fans at BBY. Not sure what we really have for selection. The store I work at is a smaller one so we don't have a huge selection. I think we might have 3 different 120mm fans, if that.
Too bad we can't nominate people on here for somethin' like tech of the month. :-P
Posted by: pdnielsen
The nice thing about Antec tri-cool fans is that you can turn them down to low at night in order to do long downloads or .wma to .mp3 conversions while you sleep. Just enough hum to act as a lullaby.
Posted by: FadedMaster
Quote:
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Originally Posted by goranpaa
When checking BBY for fans?
Look for fans, like: Acousti fan, Akasa Amber series fans, Evercool, Globalwin, Nexus, Noctua (1200 RPM version) Panaflo mid speed version, Papst, Silverstone, low rpm version, Scythe S-Flex mid rpm, Yate Loon. Those are all good and very silent fans.
Othervice, Get that Aerocool Turbine fan.
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I'm gonna order that extra ram, so I guess I'll order the Aerocool fan. The only fans we have at BBY (other than Dynex) is Antec. And I'm willing to bet on employee they're still not the greatest in price (listed at nearly $30 for the 120mm fan).
Although I did notice we have the Antec spot cooler... which looks pretty nifty.
Posted by: goranpaa
Good you did'nt pick the Antec Tricool. The only good speed setting that is decently silent is "low" and it still vibrates quite much. I had 3 of those coming with my Antec P180 case YAY!. Did'nt help much if I soft mounted the fan with elastic cords intead of screws. Still pretty noisy. And for 30 bucks (and lower), there are much better fans out there.
Just check out this Silent PC Reviews (SPCR) 120mm fan test:
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article695-page1.html
But the spot cooler is nice. Good replacement for noisy chipset fans for ex. Or additional cooling of passive heatsinks.
Posted by: pdnielsen
The problem with the Tricool fans isn't in the vibration so much as how they're mounted. If you have to use screws to mount them or elastic then they are very loud. Mine is very quiet even on medium or high because it's mounted in a built in clip on the inside rear of the PC case. The clip absorbs any vibrations. This morning I wouldn't have even known my PC was on if not for the lights on the keyboard, the case and the fan. That's why on my next build I'm going to look for a casing that is specially built with at least 1 clip of this type. The case I have is a CoolMaster case that I got for free and it's the best one I've had so far, but they don't make it anymore.
Posted by: FadedMaster
Hm, interesting. Well, like I've mentioned before, I'm not a huge bugger on silence. My other PC will still be sitting here running as a server and no matter what, it'll always be louder. Haha.
Posted by: FadedMaster
I got the replacement motherboard. I must say, this is a very slick build. I was able to play Oblivion on max settings with no lag, while I had iTunes and uTorrent going in the background. The only thing I don't like about XP is that it does not fully support more than 3GB of RAM. Oh well, from what I've read Vista is a lot better in that aspect.
EDIT: I know my CPU isn't operating anywhere near max temperature, however, I was wondering what's the range that I should start worrying. I'm assuming it's different with the dual-core processors. The highest I've seen the CPU go is 35 degrees Celsius. I average around 30 degrees according to PC Probe II and around 22 according to Core Temp.
I'm also probably going to get that spot cooler for the ram since I'm guessing even with the heat-spreaders on them, that as cramped as they are, they're probably pretty warm.
Posted by: goranpaa
Hi!
The C2D cpu's runs very cool. My overclocked 6400 ( to E6600 speeds) runs 43C max in 22C room temp.
And you have to get over 70C before you should starting to get slightly worried.
And I have to agree, that Core 2 Duo rigs runs like a champ, whatever task you throw at it.
My previous X2 4400 rig seems underclocked compaired to this lol.
Another nice thing about such a cool running cpu. Is that you wont need any hurricane fan to keep it cool. I have my Scythe Ninja cpu cooler, ducted to one of the 120mm exhaust fans in my case. With just a simple duct made out of glossy cardboard and some duct tape. No fan on the Ninja. My 2 exhaust fans are running at 850 rpm. Full speed are 1200rpm btw.
And I have no intake fans at all lol.
Posted by: FadedMaster
Okay, that's good to know. The Arctic Silver has yet to cure or whatever it does. Haha.
I'm going to install the 64-bit version of XP instead of MCE. From what I've read it runs 32-bit programs just fine. I really love this Asus motherboard. The software they include and the in-depth manual, everything about it is really nice.
EDIT: For some reason Nvidia's site only lists the Vista drivers for the Geforce 7 series.
Posted by: goranpaa
Yeah, Asus, seems to be good at making Intel mobos. I had one of their P4P 800SE s. 478 agp mobos before. And it never missed a beat. Despite of me torturing it with various oc experiments. And I whas on my way to buy the same mobo as you. But here it's quite expensive. So I picked this Gigabyte DS 4 instead. It have about the same perfomance ratio as the P5B DL. And I got this for a good price with rebate. But I must confess I whas a bit nervous first. as I have'nt owned a Gigabyte mobo before. And heard mixed impressions about their mobos. But this, seems to be of good quality.
I tried to find a Epox mobo. As I reallly like their stuff. But it seems like Epox are better at AMD mobos than with Intel dito.
Check this out. Here, you have several XP 64 drivers to choose from.
http://downloads.guru3d.com/download.php?id=28
Posted by: FadedMaster
Thanks for the link, I'll check it out. Tonight after work I'm going to install the 64-bit version.
Posted by: goranpaa
You're welcome. I have heard, that the 90 versions of the Forceware drivers, works better with the 7 series cards than the 100 versions. 91.47 for ex. seems to be very good. At least in 32 bit XP.
Posted by: Ion Silverbolt
Quote:
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Originally Posted by goranpaa
Yeah, Asus, seems to be good at making Intel mobos. I
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Unfortunately that used to be true but Asus motherboard quality has taken a nosedive recently. I just built a core 2e rig with the Asus p5b-e Sli and it was a nightmare to setup. I got it running stable but my memory timings are way higher than they should have to be for stability.
There are things left to try like moving the memory to the black slots and flashing a newer BIOS, but to me it seems unacceptable to even ship a product that takes this much finagling to get running stable.
Anyway, I been hearing good things about MSI lately. I have always preferred Epox but they seem to not focus much on the Intel side. Plus I wanted a fanless northbridge as I have had 2 of those die on me already.
As for the Asus board, I wish I would have read the user reviews. Asus has been known for good MB's for so long though that I didn't think I would have to check for something like that. Stupid me.
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