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Advice Building New Rig
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Posted by: rjbarker
Hello all, well my 3.5 yr old PC is finally (as far as I'm concerned) considered "obsolete" in the PC Gaming World. I finally got a game in which I have to turn all the settings to Low in order to play, yes, Crysis!
Anhoyw, the Mobo, CPU and GPU and I'm thinking of going with are:
1. Mobo - EVGA nForce 680i SLI
2. CPU - Intel Core 2 Extreme QX 6850 - 3.0 Ghz @ 1333 Mhz FSB
3. GPU - BFG 8800 GTX
The cost for just those components are approx. CDN $1900 give or take $100. Question is should I try to save $$ going with a cheaper CPU (example 2.4 Ghz) ? or would I be dissapointed.
The entire system will run around 3K
Cheers
B
Posted by: goranpaa
Well, I belive that a quad core is a bit of a waste. It will take a long time before you see any games that support quad cores in full. The game manufacturers will be busy for quite some time, playing around with DX 10 now, to put any real interest in quad support. And when they finally do. Your quad will be pretty obsolete too unfortunatly.
The only thing that would justify a quad right now, if you have a load of programs open at the samme time often? But I belive the Core 2 Duo's can handle that pretty well too.
I think the best bang for buck cpu right now is the E8400 Wolfdale 3.0GHz. $234.99 CAD at NCIX.
With a good cpu cooler and a case with good cooling, like the Antec 900, Antec P182 or the Coolermaster Cosmos for ex. You probably can reach an over clock about 3.8GHz to 4GHz. The quad, if you over clock it will run hotter than a C2D cpu.
So then you have a real winner, that is pretty future proof. But make sure the mobo you pick supports 1333MHz FSB and the Wolfdale cpu's.
What psu are you going to use for this rig?
Posted by: rjbarker
Thanks for the Input. I'll be looking at a 750W PSU. The one I found on TigerDirect.ca (where I've chosen all components from) is:
PSU - PC Power and Cooling P227 - 1001 750W Quad PCI-Express - CDN $189
As PSU, I guess most costly isn't necessarily the best eh? How about this then for a CPU:
Intel Core 2 Duo E6850 Processor BX80557E6850 - 3.0GHz, 4MB Cache, 1333MHz FSB, Conroe, Dual-Core, Retail, Socket 775, Processor with Fan - this one is only CDN $365.99 which is considerably less than the Intel Extreme I had mentioned earlier.
Mobo - EVGA nForce 680i - Socket 775 Dual, Gigabit LAN, Chipset - Northbridge NVIDIA nForce 680i SLI MCP
FSB 1333 Mhz
Supports Dual Channel 800 and 1200 Mhz Memory - cost CDN $280.99
Hey, by knocking down the Processor from the Extreme QX 6850 to Dual Core E6850 I will save about CDN $700 !!
Also, would the performance be better with a single 8800GTX 768 MB vs Dual 8800GT SLI ?
Thanks again....funny eh...when I bought my present Rig 3.5 yrs ago, nobody mentioned PCI e over AGP....uuggghhh! Oh well, my first Mac Performa had 8 MB RAM and a 4MB GPU hahahaha
B
Posted by: goranpaa
PC Power and Cooling, makes very nice psu's. But you can probably get a Corsair or a OCZ 750W that is just as good but cheaper.
That seems to be nice rig you have picked there!
A single 8800GT is almost as fast as a GTX. So 8800GT's in SLI is much faster.
But 2 things if you go down the 8800GT road. Buy one of the new GT's with the bigger, improved cooler. Or you may have heating problems in SLI. And dont get any cards that is factory oc'ed if you plan on going 8800GT SLI!
Also be avare of that Nvidia still have'nt fixed the driver control panel AA bug for the 8800GT and the 512mb GTS. So you wont get fully working AA...at least for now.
The only way to have a somewhat working AA for now at least, is to override it in the control panel and create a game profile for each game. But you still will have small jaggies at 8X and 16 X AA unfortunatly.
You're welcome.
Posted by: rjbarker
Looks as though I can get 2 8800 GT' 500 MB for almost the same price as 1 GTX 768 MB. Although more Heat and greater Power Consumption are to be considered with the SLI mode. Have folks been reporting any major problems with SLI ?
Guess I could also purchase another GTX 768 MB GPU in the future for SLI as well.
Anyhow, I went back through and now have a total price of CDN $ 2,072....very doable. Nice to know that this Mobo has extremely good potential for upgrading at a later date, as opposed to my obsolete AGP 8X Board.
B
Posted by: rjbarker
What I think looks good:
- EVGA nForce 680i SLI Mobo (c/w 3 PCIe slots) 1333 Mhz FSB-
- Intel Core 2 Duo E6850 3.0 Ghz 4MB Cache 1333 Mhz FSB
- EVGA GeForce 8800 GTX 768 MB GPU
- Samsung Spinpoint 500 GB HD - 7200, 16 MB, Serial ATA 300 (hope this is compatible with Mobo and PSU)
- Lite on LH 20A 1S Super All SATA DVD Burner - 20X DVD +- R Burn
- NZXT Apollo Black ATX Mid-Tower Case with Clear side
- PC Power & Cooling / Silencer 750W PSU
Total for all here (thru Tigerdirect.ca) = CDN $1773.90 + $85.40 S&H + $212.87 Tax
Total CDN $2,072.17
What do you think?
Regards
B
Posted by: rjbarker
Sorry, forgot to mention that price also includes 4 GB OCZ SLI-Ready Dual Channel PC6400 DDR2 800 Mhz Memory - 2 X 2 GB chips.
Posted by: shadysoldier
Hmm the only thing i would change on that is i would get the E8400 with a nice after market cooler say the zalman cnps with their new thermal grease, and over clock it like a beast. 6mb cache is nice.
Ive heard the new nvidia 9800gx2 cards are coming out soon.
You can either wait for that and get a good deal on lower parts or just go for the monster.
or
http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applicati...0708&CatId=2513
350 for a gtx
Posted by: Mathias
Personally I'd get a smaller hard drive (I don't really use 500 GB except as external for backup). Probably a 200 - 400 GB drive. Then you use the money you save there to get either two 8800GTs and SLI them or you can get an ATI Radeon 3870 x2 for $450, which may be slightly less. The advantage of the 3870 x2 is that you only use 1 slot and get roughly the power of two 3870s, which just about matches the 8800GTs in SLI on average, but it varies from game to game.
Posted by: goranpaa
Yeah, looks good. And you can always get another GTX later on if you want to? But you will be quite happy with just one GTX too. One idea, just as Mathias suggests could be to get a smaller hdd for your rig. And then a 250 gig external, usb harddrive for backup instead. This would be a better hdd config I belive
The NZXT Apollo, is a good case for beeing that cheap. Alchemist, here at the forum got that case for his first build, and he whas happy with it.
Posted by: rjbarker
Excellent, thanks for the heads-up to everyone. I WILL NOT go with the very pricey Intel Quad Processor.
Another quick question re: Processors though.
I notice the E8400 does have 6MB Cache vs the E6850 4 MB Cache...I'm a little confused as the E8400 appears (on the outside) to be a slightly better Processor than the E6850, yet the E6850 is considerably more expensive??? Overall, which of these two is the better Processor?
As for the HDD 500 GB, I agree, it is an over-kill, hell I've had my present Rig for 3.5 yrs and have only used half of the 250 GB HD. I would likely change out to a 250 GB HD if I can save more than about $50, but the price comparison between the two didn't seem that great.
The GPU, I must admit, I'm totally partial to the GeForce Series vs Radeon, only because my present EVGA 6800 GT has stood up so well over the past few years and have never had problems with performance (until Crysis), over-heating or Driver issues. Needless to say I'll stick to what is familiar. With that said, I would be somewhat reluctant to purchase an XFX 8800 GTX as their must be a certain reason why its $200 cheaper than the EVGA...?! Seems to me in the past 9within these Forums) I recall some folks complaining about the XFX Cards. Anyhow, as menyioned, my EVGA GPU has been flawless so far.
Thanks also for the info on not trying to configure 2 Factory Overclocked Cards in SLI as I was considering a BFG 8800 GTX with plans to purchase a 2nd one at a later date.
I'm quite excited to have this next PC built, wish I had the savy to tackle the build myself, but with the cost of the components I'd be afraid of buggering something up!
Thanks guys
B
Posted by: goranpaa
The E8400 is the better processor. Less power consumption = less heat. 2mb bigger L2 cashe. New architechture. The E 6850 is more expensive beeing a slightly older model. And now that the E8400 have arrived. The customer demand for the E6850 will be less I.e more expensive for the dealers to keep in stock.
EVGA is a nice brand. I like their step up offer. XFX, are good too. But they have the tendency to make of mix of great to pretty bad cards, depending on video card model.
They did really screw up with the 7900GS and 7950GT agp. Newegg, removed them from stock pretty fast. But their 8800 cards seems pretty good, with the exeption of the OC models. They, just as many other manufacturers with factory over clocked GF cards. Still persists using the Nvidia stock cooler. With some overheating issues as a result.
That's what I like about Gainward. They always use larger coolers for their "Golden Sample" and "Goes like hell" edt., factory oc'ed cards.
Posted by: rjbarker
Another question re: Memory and OS. Is it true that XP Home 32 Bit will not "recognize" Dual Channel 4 GB Memory?
If so, would I be better off installing XP Professional 64 Bit? I'm not that keen on installing Vista.
Also, I'm thinking of going thru NCIX instead of TigerDirect, as NCIX does have the E8400 CPU available.
As for PSU, which (other than PC Power Cooling) is a reputable Brand of PSU's? My previous Enermax has been good and is 750 W PSU adequate.
Also, Im now looking at a Antec Case, which would be the best bang for the buck as far as Cooling and space for the NForce 680i MOBO / 8800GTX?
One more, the MOBO - better to go with the 780i over the 680i, or is the 680i adequate enough?
Sorry for further questions, I just want to ensure I get everything right prior to making the order.
Thanks in advance
B
Posted by: goranpaa
Yeah, XP does'nt recognize over 3 gig of RAM. I don't know if XP 64 is better in that respect than the 32 bit? Never had looked much into the 64 bit version actually.
On the other hand, I never feldt that I have had any real need for more than 2 gig of fast RAM in XP anyway. I have the same feeling v.s Vista as you have!
Yeah, Corsair, Enermax or OCZ for ex. will do the job just as well as a PC P & C psu.
As for Antec cases. If silent computing is your cup of tea? The P182 definite. If you dont bother that much about some fan noise? The Nine hundred.
Both the 680i and 780i seems to be good chipsets. But maybe the 780i have little more future proofing to it?
Posted by: goranpaa
This, s also a very nice psu. Modular cabeling and would look great in a Antec Nine hundred.
(ABS) Tagan, is a reknown psu brand.
http://www.ncix.com/products/index....an%20Technology
Posted by: rjbarker
Thanks again, much appreciated! So, it seems unless I'm planning on either XP Professional 64 Bit or Vista 64 Bit, the extra 2 GB Memory isn't at all necessary...correct?
I guess I could always purchase 2 GB Memory and good old XP Home SP2 and be fine until ??? When is anyone (gaming world) planning on taking the leap to Vista then? Has Vista been all that bad....if so is the 1st SP going to correct matters?
Also, I think I will go with the EVGA 780i MOBO. Now it does support Memory 800 Mhz / 1200 Mhz....question is, would it be worth going for say PC2-8500 DDR2 2GB 2X1GB DDR2-1066 CL5-5-5-15 240PIN DIMM Dual Channel Memory Kit vs PC2 6400 @ 800 Mhz? I take it the 1066 refers to 1066 Mhz.
Thnkas
Posted by: goranpaa
Youre welcome.
No, you wont notice any difference worth the money really between 2 and 3 gig of RAM in XP.
Not in the way you would have if you where going Vista.
XP will still be faster than Vista in games despite the SP 1. And as the SP 3 (final) is out for XP. And as it's said, that you will get a 10% further speed push in XP according to tests....well.
Then at least I can live without DX 10 for the moment.
This must be a pretty sour lemon for M$ to chew on lol.
The Vista sp 1 do fix some of the bugs in Vista. But no performace increase as far as I can find out.
I would say, try to find some nice 6400 with as low timings ( especially CAS) as possible. Lower timings= Faster responce + better oc headroom. Check out G.Skill, Kingston Hyper X and OCZ for ex.
Posted by: rjbarker
This is where I'm at now:
1. MOBO: EVGA Nforce 780i SLI LGA 775, 1333 FSB $279.99
2. CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 Wolfsdale 3.0 Ghz, 1333 FSB, 6 MB Cache $249.99
3. GPU: EVGA E-GeForce 8800 GTX 768 MB - 575 Mhz / 1.8 Ghz $529.99
4. RAM: Crucial Ballistix PC2-6400 2GB 2X1GB DDR2-800 CL4-4-4-12 240PIN Dual Channel Memory Kit - $89.99 - As mentioned in previous post, still undecided as to type and how much.
5. PSU: Gigabyte Odin Pro 800W Power Supply $179.95
6. HDD: Western Digital SE16 320GB SATA2 7200RPM 16MB 8.9MS Hard Drive OEM $ 84.11
7. Optical Drives: 2 X LG G-H20NS10 Black DVD+RW 20X8X16 DVD-RW 20X6X16 INT SATA OEM DVD Writer $72.00
8. XP Home Edition SP2 $100
Total = CDN $1686.26
Total = S&H / Taxes/Shipping Insurance CDN $1982.65 (Just need it assembled  )
8. Case: Antec Nine Hundred Mid Tower Gamer $120.86
Posted by: goranpaa
Very nice!
That rig should be able to run any game you like at high settings and top speed.
Or I promise you I will eat an IDE cable!
And that Odin psu, should easily be able to run 2 X GTX's in SLI if you wanna go down that road some day?
Posted by: rjbarker
HA!!!...that was going to be my final question for you.....what are folks running 8800 GTX in SLI with? I could probably go ahead and slap in a 1000W PSU, but hey, I wanna see if I can bring this bad boy in on a Budget for now!
Oh and thanks for the mention on the RAM Low Latency numbers....I remembered this as a number of years ago you helped me pick out 2 500 MB Chips fpr my present Rig. to bring it up from 1 to 2 GB Memory.
My kids are choppin at the bit cause they want my old Rig when I get the new one!!
B
Posted by: goranpaa
Well, you can manage on a 650W psu without problems. But most guys I have seen running GTX's in SLI goes for 700W and up.
Yeah, low latency RAM is always useful. Especially, as most DDR 2 RAM is CAS 5. Eventually, you may even be able to run your RAM at command rate 1T instead of 2T. At least you can always try. The 1T command rate is a bit faster than 2T. But not all mobo bioses allows a 2 gig RAM kit to run this.
This, as 1T I.e is a setting for 1 gig of RAM.
Lol! yeah, I guess you have a small war going on about your old rig now.
You're welcome man.
Posted by: goranpaa
YAY! I almost forgot to say. Do check out the RAM timings with the software CPU Z afterwards. Your mobo bios may not set the timings correctly. Often, you will have adjust the timings downwards, manually in bios afterwards.
Posted by: rjbarker
Thanks again....btw....I noticed some PSU have the Fan at the top.....do these require a specified case to accomodate??
Posted by: shadysoldier
i will let you know something in advance. The antec 900 had really poor cable management so you have to take your time deciding the best routes for it.
you wont need any more then 2 gigs
Jesus S&H / Taxes/Shipping= 300 that is insane...
That will make a really nice rig.
wonder what game will require much power
maybe crysis 4
Posted by: goranpaa
 Quote:
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Originally Posted by rjbarker
Thanks again....btw....I noticed some PSU have the Fan at the top.....do these require a specified case to accomodate??
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No, you can have the fan pointing downwards too. It's just a question of what's works best in the actual case.
Posted by: rjbarker
Yep, the Taxes, Shipping and Shipping Insurance are all EXTRA....not sure where your at, but here in BC, Canada = 12% Taxes, NCIX charges $53 Shipping and additional $23 Shipping Insurance...doesn't take lomg for the extras to add up though.....
And yes, as I did with my Signature Rig below (built those long 3.5 yrs ago), install game and absolutly NO messin around with settings......High......Play.......Enjoy!!!
Now its Low.......(Graphics could look soooo much better)......hey, update my GPU.....oh yeah....that friggin AGP 8X....uuuuggghhhh!!
BTW, found another site (also based out of Vancouver, works good for me) that offer all those same components slightly cheaper than NCIX. Check out Canadadirect.com
Guy at the Computer Store whom I'm going to get to build this Rig is advising should go with 4 GB RAM and Vista......!!!!.....he says no problems with his, but I really am torn on this, we'll see.
Thanks again
B
Posted by: shadysoldier
how much is he charging you?
Posted by: rjbarker
I've gone ahead and ordered the following from CanadaDirect.com:
1. MOBO - Evga Nforce 780i Sli LGA 775 ATX 1333 FSB - $248.88
2. CPU - Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 3.0 Ghz Wolfdale 1333 FSB 6 MB Level 2 Cache - $224.99
3. GPU - Evga E Geforce 8800 GTX 575 Mhz / 1.8 Ghz 768 MB GDDR3 - $485.48
4. RAM - Crucial Ballistix Tracer PC2 6400 2GB - 2X 1 GB DDR2 800 Mhz CL4-4-4-12 - $84.00
5. HDD - Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 320 GB SATA2 3GB/s 16 MB Cache - $91.80
6. PSU - PC PowerCooling Silencer 750 Quad 750W ATX V2.2 EPS 12V 24Pin SLI - $150.99
7. LG GSA-H55L DVD+RW 20X8X16 DVD-RW Dual Layer 10X Lightscribe - $31.54
8. ASUS 16X DVD-ROM Drive SATA - $24.30
9. Windows XP Home Edition OEM - $93.28
And thats it ....Grand Total (No Shipping Charges Ground Purolator), $21.53 Shipping Insurance + $174 Taxes)
...... $1,631.61
Buddy at the Computer Shop has a Case / Fan assembly for me for $150, I cannot remember the name off hand, but nice looking case with plenty of room, fans etc. The side could drop down for easy installation. BTW, his shop fees are $55 / Hr and he figured 1.5 Hrs for assembly.
Should still come just under $1900 with case / assembly. I like to have someone closeby just in case I have problems with the Rig. He'll likely be dissapointed I went with XP vs Vista, but I want this thing to be stable ..........I'll be curious to see how Crysis runs on it. i've been playing it on my old Rig at 1024 X 768 pretty much all Low settings.
Thanks again folks.
B
Posted by: rjbarker
My new signature below...finally got the new Rig! Runs Bioshcock and Crysis very nice indeed! Something odd though when I open Cpuz:
1. Processor states : Name: Intel Pentium III Code Name Katmai
Specification: Intel Core 2 Duo CPU E8400 @ 3.0 Ghz - Whats woih the Pentium III?
2. Memory just shows the 2 GB but no other info..No CasLatency nothing on any other fields??
3. Under Cache it doesn't show anything under L2 Cache?
Do I need a newer version of Cpuz?
Posted by: Mathias
Latest version of CPU-Z is 1.44 or 1.4.4 I think Something like that. What's yours?
Posted by: rjbarker
I downloaded a few years ago 1.31
Posted by: Mathias
Yeah, you need a new version. The E8000 series wasn't even announced until like last year I think, so that's why CPU-Z is probably not giving you the right info.
Posted by: rjbarker
Thanks that did it...all info seems correct now.
Cheers
Posted by: chainlink
XP64 can use 128GB of memory although good luck in finding a board and chips to do that.
Posted by: rjbarker
Not the slightest bit interested in all that Memory, although I do have 4GB and realize that XP 32 Bit, is not the solution. However, I will eventually be getting Vista 32 Bit (if SP1 will accomodate 4 GB) or Vista 64 Bit.
When I built this new System/ Rig last month, that was probably the greatest decision, 4 x 1GB ..?...2 X 2GB....XP 32 Bit ..?...XP 64 Bit...?....Vista 32 / 64 Bit.....?....Memory must be compliant with my Evga 780i MOBO Northbridge Chipset....yada yada yada.....and everyone has thier own opinion......and of course thier all different..hahahaha
I was on a budget with this build of course, wanted it under 2k, and basically came in at around CDN $1950......paid an extra $60 for the case from a local PC Dealer (do like to support local business) and if I have any problems....he's the guy!
Anyhow, I did wind up with XP 32 Bit (for CDN$85 couldn't resist) and do have all 4 1GB sticks installed on my 780i Board, BIOS shows 4GB, but of course XP recognizes about 2.8GB....but hey, I've got it and with it installed , I do have about 600 MB more of recognizable Memory now then if I didn't install it.
BTW Goranpa....No problems with changing the Crucial Ballistix Tracer Memory to 1T...left all Timings the same and Voltage the same, boots up no problem!
so 4-4-4-12 1T @2.1v Thanks
Posted by: goranpaa
Very nice! The 1T command rate gives about a 5% performance boost. It's also telling me that your Ballistixs are very stable.
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