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Microsoft Threatens to Yank XP and 2000
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Posted by: Tweaker
In the court case to determine government sanctions for antitrust violations, Microsoft plans to argue that if sanctions sought by state prosecutors are granted, the company will be forced to pull its latest Windows OS off the market and will be unable to develop new systems. MS says that Windows XP and Windows 2000 can not be redesigned to satisfy state demands that they be made available with and without key programs, such as IE.
I'm thinking smoke and mirrors here but if MS moves GOOD FOR THEM. If they pull the plug of XP and 2000 good for them! I would be sick n tired of having the government dogging my every move. Think of what Bill Gates has done for the computer industry. Sure it's not perfect but what is the main platform that is used in the work place today? What is the main platform used at home? Bill Gates has worked his way up and became a success, the competition needs to deal with it! That’s the American way. Wonder how much of the Tax Payers money has been dumped into the investigations for these proceedings. Time to put an end to this charade.
Read about it here
Source: Washington Post
Posted by: Chako
I think an argument can be made that it isn't the operating system that created the predominance of the PC. Mac OS has always been better then windows for ease of use, stability, etc...
No, it was not Bill Gates that ensured the PCs dominance in home computing. It was everyone who could make a PC because IBM didn't protect themselves. Because everyone could make one, they became cheaper. Since consumers like choice, this allowed third party companies to flourish in making all sorts of things. With more and more people on board, the PC became the standard.
Yes, the OS does have something to do with it, but DOS sucked big time, and yet, during this time, the PC became the leader. It wasn't the OS, but the hardware and the cost to the consumer that ensured that Bill Gates would have a platform to become rich.
So, what exactly did Bill Gates do for the PC. Well, he can create massive OS that has more bloatware in them then I would like to think about. They loved to crash because the registry wasn't protected, and as such, certain sectors prefer to work with Macs..such as many research facilities. I know of entire University departments that use only Macs for this reason...stability. It is sad that the home user just recently got an OS that is semi stable (XP), and yet, it has all sorts of MS crap on it like MS messenger etc that you should have the choice to install or not. Alas, MS believes that people should not have the choice of installing components and discarding the detritus.
This is not a Hate MS message. This is a MS could do much better with less hassles for their customers message. For example: I was forced to telephone some shmuck because I did so many upgrades that my XP didn't recognize my machine anymore. This Shmuck asked me if I was pirating, to which I told him that MS was an idiot for penalizing tech oriented people....I finally got a new number, but what a royal pain in the @ss! Such things do not make me feel warm and cozy with MS.
So personally, I would love to see MS open their OS so that you have the CHOICE of installing and uninstalling components. I don't like their draconian methods of holding a gun to your head and telling you what you have to put up with. Yes, yes, I know that there are work around, but when I pay top dollar for an OS, I should not have to spend hours on the net trying to find them, and hacking my registry ect...fixing an OS to my liking........
If it takes the US Govt to do that...by all means...go at it!
Posted by: Kdr Kane
I don't attribute Microsoft's success to Bill Gates, nor blame him for their problems.
And I surely don't believe that quote. Neither did the stock market. 
Eric Raymond may even be right when he forecasts doom for Microsoft when computers reach the sub $350 mark. He predicts Microsoft may know they are doomed.
This way they can blame it on the government.
"The only way to explain Microsoft's decisions over the past couple of years is to say that they know their packaged software business is doomed," he said.
Posted by: SKYHN
Id like to see MS follow through with what they said and stop making OS's and pull them from the shelves. That is just a straight up lie on their part. A company with that much money and control wouldnt just give it all up in the snap of a finger. I think they need some cheese to go with their Whine.
I dont wanna get into a big thing here(fat chance), but just remember microsoft hasnt exactly been doing legal buisness practices.
I remember a while back where they were giving employees of certain stores rebate checks for saying "This PC comes with Microsoft Windows :Insert Version: , the most powerful operating system in the world. It also comes with the Intel Pentium 4 processor, the most powerfull Processor in the world." and if they sold the PC, they got the rebate check.
They have done a lot for PC's, but now they are abusing what they have astablished. Look at the last 2 versions of Windows: WinME and WinXP(I dont count win2k because it is aimed at a corporate crowd). Both released way to early, full of bugs/security holes and incompatable with a lot of hardware/software. Then theres the spyware in WinXP, its none of microsofts buisness what someone does on their PC, weither its playing a Mp3 of Ozzy Ozborne or Building a virus for mass distribution. If I wanted MS to know my buisness, I would take pictures, send them emails and snail mail letting them know what I was doing.
They are starting to throw their money around now too, Xbox being a prime example. Are they making a profit on the Xbox? No, not until at least 4 to 5 years after its been out and thats only if they sell what their estimates were, which currently are not where they expected to be. Do they have any conceivable reason for venturing into a market they have no buisness being in? No, accept that they have money to throw around. Personally though, I think that they are starting to realize that their software days are numbered and they are trying to get some insurance. Maybe they thought the Xbox would be really big and just totally bring the Console Gaming industry under their control. As anyone can see, thats not happening. So what are they gonna do now?
MS thinks now that people are just gonna buy anything because it says "Microsoft" and "Windows" and its happening because Billy in San Diego cant get technical with PC's so automatically newer is better. I gurantee that more than 3/4 of all WinXP home users have no clue what "Windows Update" is nor do they know how to run it nor do they know about the security holes.
Ive heard of kids in Comp Programming schools that can make better software than MS. MS taking a month off from new projects to fix old ones just goes to show how screwed up things are. They got so ahead of themselves that they had to stop and catch up.
Theres only 2 things that MS makes that is quality: Inteli Optical Mice and Sidewinder Joysticks.
To change a famous quote: "Give me Mac OS or give me death!"
Posted by: JANNA
***but just remember microsoft hasnt exactly been doing legal buisness practices. ***
so far there has been no proof of this at all. every time it has come up it has not been proven.
there is nothing illegal that i can think of if MS pays people to say x about their product. what is illegal is to pay folk to say negative things about other products. and even then i doubt that wort of thing has any effect.
the reason MS is the predominate OS maker is that compared to everything else out the win9x and NT based OS' are the best thing going. the only reason mac is primarily in school environments is because schools dont need them for anything but word proccessing for the most part. macs do no handle business type applications very well. i bet that ever university and such that use macs in the classroom actually use PC and MS operating systems to actually run their university. i dare say there are very places that run their businesses on non-PC MS based stuff.
all this lawsuit business against MS is nothing but what is called sour-grapes. MS makes better stuff than anyone else so the competition is suing because the competition's stuff just sucks. its not microsofts fault that lunix/unix/mac/netscape are inferior when trying to run in a business environment serving the desktop needs of the average business user. and yes i do know linux is good for internet hosting. so what. liunux sux for anything BUT internet hosting. linux as it is now is difficult to setup runs very little software and has severe hardware compatability issues. windows ME at release had little to no hardware issues very easy to setup. as is win2k. for XP tho i do agree that there is severe problems with spyware issues and security issues. but that has not been the case with previous releases. no OS is secure least of all linux. the only reason u dont hear more about the flaws of linux is that linux has not gotten the same scrutiny by hackers as the MS products have.
Posted by: Kdr Kane
Janna,
I couldn't disagree more.
Microsoft was found guilty of illegal practices.
Why you brought up Linux is beyond me. I hear about Linux security problems all the time. But, they are nothing like the mess coming from Microsoft.
Posted by: Gunslinger
He brought up Linux as a point of comparison. He was saying that the reason MS is dominant is because it is the best software, and I agree with him.
Also, logic dictates (and, coincides with my opinion), that Linux actually has more security issues than Windows. FAR more.
Why are they les targetted by hackers?
Well, where's the fun in breaking into something when you have the blueprints (answers) ahead of time?
Posted by: rockjock
I am not sure that this battle is about the "illegal" practices of MS. MS is not squeeky clean but is also not as dirty as described by their enemies. Slap their hand and fine them if they have utilized illegal trade practices. The garbage about opening up the system for everyone's use is ludicrous. That openess of the OS should be choice made only by MS. We, the consumers, will approve/disapprove by our purchasing actions.
Law suits that would open the system in effect make this a government blessed OS that we will never be able to get rid of even when something better does come along. Every new OS will be litigated to the effect that the existing politically favored companies will stay in place.
I do believe that this is about the redistribution of MS's wealth as directed by politicians, competitors, and lawyers for their own benefit. The end result of all these battles will have no benifit to the consumer.
I would love to see the ensuing scramble if MS pulled the OS's off the shelf. What fun!
Posted by: SKYHN
Fines wont do jack to MS. Unless they get a fine of $100 Billion, they will just pay it and continue on.
From what I have read, they dont want the system opened up for everyones use, even I dont want that. They want certain things taken out and made optional with windows. The main thing is Internet Explorer.
Posted by: Chako
I don't dislike MS, or Bill Gates...which after reading my previous post, did sound like I was blaming it all on him....and I do believe he doesn't run it anymore..so that wasn't fair, or correct.
What I dislike about MS is that their OSs can be much better. I understand the complexities that they have created in trying to make everything backwards compatible. The complexities of so many different hardware makers and their resultant drivers. I am sure that MS does a good job in trying to make it all work. Sometimes they hit it on the nail head, other times they miss. That is why they create service packs.
No, what irks me is paying top dollar for an OS that does not come with manuals. You have to go to the local book store and buy some Idiots guide to OS "whatever" to find out what in the world is going on.
What irks me is that MS shoehorns users into accepting and installing lots of crap on your computer. I would love to turn off MS messenger without having to go into my registry and playing around in there. This is unacceptable as the majority of computer users are not advanced enough to figure it out, let alone search for the information because of the lack of documentation mentioned above...hard to find you can improve something without knowing that there is something you can improve upon.
Starting to sound like a rant. Well that is not my intentions. I use MS OSs because everything runs on them, not because I think it is a superior product. Frankly, there is no choice. In OSs, that is both a good and a bad thing.
Posted by: Daedleus
You guys have any links you could share regarding spyware in XP? I'd like to learn more about that.
Posted by: bankball
I think everyone including the government have it all wrong. While I do feel MS does have a monopoly it has been beneficial as it gave a common OS for software developers. Unfortunately, MS has also branched beyong developing OSes and into applications. The problem here is that MS is greedy and wants the whole pie. And yes they have an advantage in application development as they have first hand knowledge of the OS and I fully believe that MS has made additions to the OS just for their applications so that they run better than the competition. While opening the source code for windows would help the software developers, I don't think it would allow the general community to alter the OS without MS's permission (think that would happen?). My suggestion is that all of you programmers that don't like the Windows OS, develop your own open source OS that will run all of today's application that currently run on Windows with the same efficiency and stability such that users can just replace the OS to the new one without having any applications ported to this new OS. Until someone (or company) decides that they can make a better OS and is willing to develop it and that it will run all of the Windows apps, face-it, we're all stuck with windows. Anyone out there willing to give it a go?
Posted by: Null Actor
Not reading the thread. Too big.
But I'd just like to add:
w00t MS!
They are holding the entire computer industry HOSTAGE!! And they KNOW IT!
That's hardball folks. I dare you to imagine a world where windows has been pulled off the shelves, yet MS is still legally able to have you charged for piracy.
That's right folks, it'd be like an earthquake knocking out the power in every city on the planet.
You'd wake up one day and realize that you can't use your computer anymore.
I love it.
Posted by: Asmodai
Spyware.
Here's a link that will tell you more and has a program to remove spyware files.
Click here
Posted by: Daedleus
Thanks Asmodai. I've been using Ad-aware thus far.
What I'm curious to learn more about is spyware intergrated into XP itself (by MS), which is what it seems was being said in previous posts in this thread.
If anyone has any links they could post...
Posted by: Null Actor
Media player in XP supposedly sends info about the songs you listen to to MS.
Posted by: Xtren
Hmmm..... I guess we will have to start using Winamp and Quicktime a lot more often.....
Posted by: bankball
Nova Z.
By not reading it you missed the point.
Unless some programmers are willing to create their own OS that will allow existing Windows programs to run seamlessly on it, everyone should stop complaining and live with it.
That goes for the government as well.
Wonder what kind of OS they could come up with.
Posted by: TotalRecall
Magic Lantern 2003. We're watching technology.
Posted by: Xtren
The imagination people have these days, who knows what's next, we just have to wait and let the techies do their job.
Posted by: Null Actor
 Quote:
Originally posted by bankball
Nova Z.
By not reading it you missed the point.
Unless some programmers are willing to create their own OS that will allow existing Windows programs to run seamlessly on it, everyone should stop complaining and live with it.
That goes for the government as well.
Wonder what kind of OS they could come up with.
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Uhhh... That's my point. I didn't miss anything.
Posted by: Xtren
Yeah he didn't miss anything..... I missed everything, I just replied to the last post in the thread and didn't bother reading anything else.
Posted by: jrpm
MS today is like IBM of the 70's.
Nothing they make, hardware or software, is the best.
But it is all pretty good. Or at least good enough.
I think Logitech makes better mice.
Which OS is better depends on what you are trying to do. Wanna crunch numbers? Use MVS. Wanna draw pictures? Use Mac. Wanna work on/with the Internet? Use Unix/Linux. I still think Quattro was a better spread sheet than Excel, in it's day (under Borland.)
The point is, like IBM of the 70's, while nothing may be the best, it is a one stop center for a mix of things that work, and work together at least more often than not.
What made Microsoft was marketing, not technology. Whether it was IBM on the hardware, Digital Research on the OS, whatever, other folks shot themselves in the foot (or higher) and Gates and company stepped in and made the deal(s).
I do think they have been /are being punished for being successful and in the right places at the right time, as well, possibly, for their lack of corporate political activity.
Are they guilty of some illegal practices? Yes. But so are the milk marketers and others that limit competition by contract or pay the grocery for the better shelf positions.
Until DOJ or whoever goes after the other industries as well, I think we are looking at a vendetta tinged with class warfare (against the big and successful) rather than justice.
Posted by: Xtren
One thing about Microsoft is that I have bought a lot of their products and games (including a mouse) and I have never had a problem or have I been disappointed with something by Microsoft. I don't care what people say about Bill Gates or the company, I still think they are great and they come out with great stuff.
Posted by: Spork Lover
Chako... your hardware upgrade problem is the exact reason why I dont want to buy XP.
Posted by: Xtren
Yeah, Windows XP uses a lot of your RAM up so obviously if you want to upgrade you have to have enough RAM as well.
That's what I did recently.
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