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Japanese Games (Split thread)
(Click here to view the original thread with full colors/images)
Posted by: Canis Lupus
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I dunno about you guys, but this seems like a boycott ... at least the Japanese have conviction 
Posted by: Spider
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Originally posted by Canis Lupus
I dunno about you guys, but this seems like a boycott ... at least the Japanese have conviction
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Yep, maybe they're just trying to support their economy. 
Posted by: Swilo
Actually, I believe it has something to do with japanese games being entertaining while american games are mainly "oooh, look at the shinies." I don't even remember buying any console game not made in europe or japan.
Posted by: JANNA
personally i think japanese games are uninspired collect the coin games while watching poorly animated and ridiculous characters fly around on pink floofy cloud ships spouting nonsense. if u like that stuff fine i dont have a problem with u buying all the japanese junk out htere. i think the japanese game industry is a joke. if u watch one episode of dragonball (possibly the dumbest cartoon ever next to pokman) that pretty much sums up japanese game content...
Posted by: Swilo
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Originally posted by JANNA
personally i think japanese games are uninspired collect the coin games while watching poorly animated and ridiculous characters fly around on pink floofy cloud ships spouting nonsense. if u like that stuff fine i dont have a problem with u buying all the japanese junk out htere. i think the japanese game industry is a joke. if u watch one episode of dragonball (possibly the dumbest cartoon ever next to pokman) that pretty much sums up japanese game content...
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Someone is starting to sound like even more of a bigot, and obviously you have only been exposed to the parts of japanese entertainment that fit in with what little 5 year old american children would enjoy. DBZ and Pokemon happen to be quite possibly the 2 worst examples of anything japanese, only rivaled by sailor moon or seizure robots; they're childish and appeal to people who like bright shiny things that explode.
Don't even bother arguing the point, you are simply misinformed about the subject and it would be a waste of time.
Posted by: JANNA
i am hardly misinformed. having an opinion on something is not being bigoted. i picked dragonball and pokman because they are the worst examples of japanese based entertainment i can think of off hand to illustrate my OPINION on japanese game developers in general. a bigot is someone that hates something without trying it or researching a topic. much like u will find in almost every anti-MS post on any board. a bigot is someone that thinks a person's opinion has no merit and should be dismissed because that opinion does not agree with their own.
*thinks this whole thing needs to be locked or deleted*
Posted by: Null Actor
I don't think this needs to be locked... I think both of your postings reflect both sides of the argument admirably. However, I would like to caution you to steer clear of personal attacks (Swilo).
It's just two extremes.
People have differing opinions on things, and fact of the matter is, you'll never change the other person's mind.
I find it enlightening to see arguments like this, because it's a pretty obvious indication that the xbox won't fail. I mean, there are a lot of people like Janna around, and there are a lot of people like Swilo around. People like Janna have less of a tolerance for things they consider 'silly', while people like Swilo are willing to ignore the sillyness if the end result is a good entertaining game.
Oh, and FYI, I thoroughly enjoy Dragon Ball Z. 
Posted by: Freak
I love the japanese culture, i love the american culture. Both are great fun.
Dragon Ball Z was great when I was a kid, (I own comic books 1-45, practically the whole series) and Dragon Ball GT sucks (If there is an american version of that)
Posted by: Swilo
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Originally posted by JANNA
i am hardly misinformed. having an opinion on something is not being bigoted. i picked dragonball and pokman because they are the worst examples of japanese based entertainment i can think of off hand to illustrate my OPINION on japanese game developers in general. a bigot is someone that hates something without trying it or researching a topic. much like u will find in almost every anti-MS post on any board. a bigot is someone that thinks a person's opinion has no merit and should be dismissed because that opinion does not agree with their own.
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You are obviously misinformed if you think dragon ball and pokémon are good examples of EVERY Japanese game. They're popular, they're widespread, but they still aren't a good generalization; and not being able to spell their names properly is evidence that you hold a bias against them.
Informing someone how they act is hardly name calling, especially when done in a polite manner. Had I just shouted something inane like "YOU NEONAZI JACKASS HATER OF JAPS" I would understand being told not to do it, but I feel JANNA needs to understand his narrowmindedness on certain issues, and this happens to be one of them.
A bad experience with one person or object shouldn't ruin what could be a good experience with the rest.
Posted by: Nfested
Some people are just turned off by Japanese Anime. I don't blame them, I once hated the Anime style of "art" on the cartoons I saw. I wasn't narrowminded, I was just disgusted at how everything about Anime looked.
That is until I saw DBZ and I started liking Anime.
Posted by: Ion Silverbolt
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Originally posted by Swilo
I would understand being told not to do it, but I feel JANNA needs to understand his narrowmindedness on certain issues, and this happens to be one of them.
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Janna has a valid opinion on the subject and it's hardly narrowminded. However, you calling him narrowminded just makes your view worthless to consider whether or not you considered it a personal attack.
I myself have watched several types of anime. Some of it is good but most of it is asstastic.
Posted by: Gunslinger
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Originally posted by JANNA
i am hardly misinformed. having an opinion on something is not being bigoted. i picked dragonball and pokman because they are the worst examples of japanese based entertainment i can think of off hand to illustrate my OPINION on japanese game developers in general. a bigot is someone that hates something without trying it or researching a topic. much like u will find in almost every anti-MS post on any board. a bigot is someone that thinks a person's opinion has no merit and should be dismissed because that opinion does not agree with their own.
*thinks this whole thing needs to be locked or deleted*
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Next time you have an "opinion", please present it as an opinion as opposed to an exercise in arrogance.
plzkthxbye
Posted by: Ion Silverbolt
arrogant \Ar"ro*gant\, a. [F. arrogant, L. arrogans, p. pr. of arrogare. See Arrogate.] 1. Making, or having the disposition to make, exorbitant claims of rank or estimation; giving one's self an undue degree of importance; assuming; haughty; -- applied to persons.
Sorry but I just don't see any arrogance to Janna's post. Just an opinion that some anime lovers don't agree with. An example of arrogance would be:
"Anime is for lower reatarded class sub-humans who are incapable of living in a normal functioning society outside their parents basement."
Janna makes no statement that says his opinion is more important than anyone elses. Just different. Even if he says Anime=ass, that is not arrogant.
Posted by: Gunslinger
An opinion is invalid unless it is supported. There are multiple ways of supporting an opinion. If you state an opinion, and don't support your claim, then you are, in fact being arrogant -- exorbitant claims of estimation, assuming.
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ridiculous characters fly around on pink floofy cloud ships spouting nonsense.
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What do we have here? Anecdotal evidence. Useless dribble.
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thinks a person's opinion has no merit and should be dismissed because that opinion does not agree with their own.
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I can't speak for Swilo, but I think your opinion has no merit because you don't support it intelligently.
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they are the worst examples of japanese based entertainment i can think of off hand to illustrate my OPINION
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And you did an excellent job of illustrating your opinion.
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if u watch one episode of dragonball (possibly the dumbest cartoon ever next to pokman) that pretty much sums up japanese game content...
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Dumbest ever? Oh really? Explain that. Why is it the dumbest ever? And while you are drawing parallels, why don't you explain the connection between the level of quality of japanese cartoons as it relates to the level of quality of japanese games.
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All evidence to the contrary. If you are informed, then argue like someone who is informed.
Now, I'm not arguing either side. I'm just an observer, playing the advocate. So, since I'm doing that, I'll tackle the other side with the same criticism.
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DBZ and Pokemon happen to be quite possibly the 2 worst examples of anything japanese, only rivaled by sailor moon or seizure robots; they're childish and appeal to people who like bright shiny things that explode.
Don't even bother arguing the point, you are simply misinformed about the subject and it would be a waste of time
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More anecdotal (useless) evidence. This new and not-so improved model even comes with the declaration that the point can't be argued.
Oh, and Ion, thanks for quoting the dictionary. If that isn't an example of arrogance, then I don't know what is. Well, I might as well fight fire with fire.
feeble - Adjective 'fE-b&l
1 a : markedly lacking in strength b: indicating weakness
2 a : deficient in qualities or resources that indicate vigor, authority, force, or efficiency
Posted by: Shalome
*Shalome bites everybody*
Posted by: Spider
oOOoOoOoo
Posted by: Ion Silverbolt
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An opinion is invalid unless it is supported.
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o·pin·ion (-pnyn)
n.
A belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof.
That pretty much validates Janna's opinion whether he backs it up or not. And whoever said you have to backup any opinion? It's a ****ing opinion. It's not like Janna is stating it as a fact. He even stated it as an opinion.
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Dumbest ever? Oh really? Explain that. Why is it the dumbest ever? And while you are drawing parallels, why don't you explain the connection between the level of quality of japanese cartoons as it relates to the level of quality of japanese games.
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I think he explained it fine. Not in detail, but why the hell do you need to go into detail about an opinion?
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More anecdotal (useless) evidence. This new and not-so improved model even comes with the declaration that the point can't be argued.
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Who the hell said you have argue about anything? A discussion board doesn't necessarily mean an argue board. If you don't like someone's opinion, don't ridicule them for it. Just move on and post your view on the topic. People seem to think the rants and raves forum gives them a license to be an ass to other members. Well it doesn't.
Posted by: Null Actor
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Originally posted by Ion Silverbolt
People seem to think the rants and raves forum gives them a license to be an ass to other members. Well it doesn't.
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I agree. Geebuz people! You are acting like children. And unless you are children, I'd advise a bit of growing up.
Posted by: Gunslinger
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That pretty much validates Janna's opinion whether he backs it up or not
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I'll not suggest any ignorance on your part. I know (as you've shown), that you're perfectly capable of going to dictionary.com and looking of "valid".
I mean, really. That whole statement is completely asinine. I find it hard to believe that anything can be validated without being supported.
John: That movie sucked.
Jane: What sucked about it?
John: They had thse weird modes of transportation and that guys voice was strange.
Jane: That's stupid. Is there anything concrete that made the movie bad? Was the acting bad? How about the camera work? Were the effects over done? How about the story, did you find it overly simple or overly complex, or even non-existent?
John: Ummm, well......the movie was just dumb. Just cuz.
Jane: So basically, you have no reason to believe that the movie was bad? You should be a film critic.
I think that point has been sufficiently driven home.
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And whoever said you have to backup any opinion?
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I'll tell you who. Any prosecuting attorney who believes (opinion) that the defendant is guilty and has to prove it to a jury. You can hold your own opinions without any shred of proof. But that's all you can do. Hold them. If you want to argue them, then you must support them. Period. Any opinion that you choose to argue is invalid if you don't support it with factual observation - non-anecdotal evidence.
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Who the hell said you have argue about anything?
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Nobody said that you must argue anything. But they were, in fact, arguing, whether they had to or not. Was there some kind of point you were trying to make with that statement? If so, kindly elaborate.
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A discussion board doesn't necessarily mean an argue board
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Granted, that isn't the sole unifying purpose of a discussion board. But isn't that in fact one common use? There's nothing bad about arguing as long as you do it intelligently.
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If you don't like someone's opinion, don't ridicule them for it
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I ridiculed no one, nor did I suggest that his opinion was in fact incorrect. I made no indication that I liked or disliked it. You can read back for yourself on that, if you like.
And I think I can safely say that nobody feels that the Rants/Raves forums is a prerequisite for being an ass. If you think I'm being an ass? Well, I'm sorry you feel that way. I'm not going to change anything, though. I saw something rediculous, and illuminated this state in an intellgent and well-supported manner. I made no personal attacks. I violated no forum guidelines - and operated well within the boundaries of my responsibilities as a representative of this site. If I'm still an ass, then so be it.
Posted by: Ion Silverbolt
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
I mean, really. That whole statement is completely asinine. I find it hard to believe that anything can be validated without being supported.
John: That movie sucked.
Jane: What sucked about it?
John: They had thse weird modes of transportation and that guys voice was strange.
Jane: That's stupid. Is there anything concrete that made the movie bad? Was the acting bad? How about the camera work? Were the effects over done? How about the story, did you find it overly simple or overly complex, or even non-existent?
John: Ummm, well......the movie was just dumb. Just cuz.
Jane: So basically, you have no reason to believe that the movie was bad? You should be a film critic.
I think that point has been sufficiently driven home.
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Not really. What a retarded example. John does not have to explain to Jane why he liked it or not. And if Jane doesn't like what John says about it, Jane needs to STFU and ask someone else what they thought of it.
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I'll tell you who. Any prosecuting attorney who believes (opinion) that the defendant is guilty and has to prove it to a jury. You can hold your own opinions without any shred of proof. But that's all you can do. Hold them. If you want to argue them, then you must support them. Period. Any opinion that you choose to argue is invalid if you don't support it with factual observation - non-anecdotal evidence.
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ROFL, this is a discussion forum, not Judge Judy. It doesn't matter one way or another. Especially in this case. Everyone here has seen anime and will have their own distinct opinion of it. No one elses opinions will have any bearings on their own. It's pointless to argue about it let alone "Validate" it.
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Nobody said that you must argue anything. But they were, in fact, arguing, whether they had to or not. Was there some kind of point you were trying to make with that statement? If so, kindly elaborate.
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Janna made an opinion and Swilo flamed him for it. My point is respect the opinion of others. Insulting them for not liking what you or anyone else likes is childish and reeks of a fanboy.
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Granted, that isn't the sole unifying purpose of a discussion board. But isn't that in fact one common use? There's nothing bad about arguing as long as you do it intelligently.
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Calling someone elses comments asinine or invalid or arrogant is not arguing intelligently. It's just a way to get around directly insulting someone. You're not fooling anyone with it either. If you wanted to argue intelligently, post your own opinion and back it up, or ask someone to elaborate theirs.
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I ridiculed no one, nor did I suggest that his opinion was in fact incorrect. I made no indication that I liked or disliked it. You can read back for yourself on that, if you like.
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See above.
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And I think I can safely say that nobody feels that the Rants/Raves forums is a prerequisite for being an ass. If you think I'm being an ass? Well, I'm sorry you feel that way. I'm not going to change anything, though. I saw something rediculous, and illuminated this state in an intellgent and well-supported manner. I made no personal attacks. I violated no forum guidelines - and operated well within the boundaries of my responsibilities as a representative of this site. If I'm still an ass, then so be it.
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My "ass" statement was directed at people who display fanoboy-like behavior and flame anyone with differing opinions. That shit gets old and it doesn't impress anyone.
Posted by: Canis Lupus
Do I have to justify why I hate broccoli? Do I have to put up with people who try and question my intense hate for broccoli? Do I owe them an explanation?
Only if they're my mother...
Posted by: Canis Lupus
I love Japanese anime, and a lot of other things the Japanese did. Hell, I specifically chose a Japanese car coz I think highly of their workmanship.
But if someone does not like something made by the Japanese (games, in this case), I normally ask why, and if they give out a reason I think is invalid, I am not CONSTRAINED to push the issue and question the validity of their opinion - I present my own and try to show them MY opinion, but I don't question theirs.
By showing someone your opinion, you are opening their minds, the same way they stimulated your mind when they presented their opinion to you.
A simple exchange of opinions does not always have to be a debate. You can never convince someone by telling them their opinions are bullshit. You are just opening yourself up to an argument.
Arguments < Debates
The best way is to present your opinions, and hope that they see where you're coming from. If you believe your ideas are the correct one, chances are, the other person thinks the same way...
An opinion is NEVER, and lemme repeat that, NEVER invalid - that's ridiculous! ... that's like saying thinking for yourself and expressing your thoughts are invalid. Only when you try to pass off those opinions as FACT do they become invalid.
Just a little tact here please...
Posted by: redwench
*sends everyone to their individual room and locks them in*
*tosses laggy in her room*
Posted by: Shalome
*bites everybody*
Don't make me do it a THIRD time in the same thread!
Posted by: Canis Lupus
Third time's a charm
*gets some band-aid*
Posted by: AngstMerchant
*Stops drinking long enough to give Shalome a furrowed brow*
Posted by: Freak
everyone's entitled to their own opinion, however narrow-minded or one sided.
no point trying to convince them otherwise, if they hold an opinion that plainly goes against logic then obviously they're stubborn or ignorant.
Posted by: Outlaw
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Originally posted by De Freak
if they hold an opinion that plainly goes against logic then obviously they're stubborn or ignorant.
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If opinions were logical, everyone would like and hate the same things. You can't call someone stubborn or ignorant because of their opinion.
Posted by: Gunslinger
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Originally posted by SniperIII
If opinions were logical, everyone would like and hate the same things. You can't call someone stubborn or ignorant because of their opinion.
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Not true. You can easily argue two completely different sides of something, and both of them be completely logical. That's the whole point of discussion. You aren't trying to impress your opinion on someone else (necessarily), but at the very least you should help them to understand your opinion, and vice versa. This kind of open-mindedness is how ideas get shared, and two different sides can come to together to form an idea that's greater than the two apart.
That's what I was getting at with my series of diatribes throughout this thread. I had no opinion on the issue, because I am not sufficiently informed on it to form one. However, if I were able to read rationale for JANNA's or Swilo's (none existed) opinion alike, I may have received from them a level of insight as to why they feel that way. It could have given me something to look for, or filled in a gap left in my own experience -- thus helping me create an informed opinion of my own.
That's what a discussion is all about.
Posted by: Null Actor
I hate arguments about definitions. And I hate stupid threads.
And I think I'm fully justified in locking this, it's not going anywhere anyway.
Posted by: Canis Lupus
I second it. Anyone who objects to the closure of this thread, take it up with ME.
I don't know who the **** told some people here that these forums are a bastion of the First Amendment. It certainly wasn't me.
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